Snapping out of Genjutsu Suggestion

[Minato_Uzumaki]

So, once ensnared in a Genjutsu, a character has to build up an enormous amount of chakra and release it to escape. So, how about a button pushing mechanism? There would be a amount of time to build up the chakra, and if you didn't in time you would experience damage. And to build up the chakra in the first place, how about one of those button mashing things? Or a button pressing sequence? Such as, press C rapidly, or press a sequence of button such as Q  U G Y U I. And if you complete the sequence, then the user would take damage, kinda like a double-edged sword. I think that would be awesome.

[m4r1us]

Here: http://www.shinobilifeonline.com/index.php/topic,500.msg4896.html#msg4896

And imo, genjutsu shouldn't do damage. It should be used for things like paralysis, screwing movement (like pressing right and go left) etc.

[AugustRed]

i think genjutsu should do something more than that m4, if that was the case no one would really like genjustu, since its an illusion technique there should be things that arent really there that only the person or people inflicted should only see some how. But genjutsu can and should be able to cause pain ( damage ) since it attacks the mind and senses as well as put strain on the other persons body. but idk.

[HalfMask]

IMO, I think it would be better if you could just hold the tiger seal and C for 10 seconds to release genjutsu. Because genjutsu is an illusion, and illusions don't do damage, it wouldn't make much sense for it to be a "double-edged sword."

[AugustRed]

or break your own finger? maybe inflict pain on yourself 0.o

[Minato_Uzumaki]

Well, then stamina loss could be an option, like slower movement due to exhaustion from mental trauma.  Either that or loss of health according to the time you're ensnared in the genjutsu. I think genjutsu should at least do some sort of damage. It would make it a way better form of attack.

[Nectarini]

Here: http://www.shinobilifeonline.com/index.php/topic,500.msg4896.html#msg4896

And imo, genjutsu shouldn't do damage. It should be used for things like paralysis, screwing movement (like pressing right and go left) etc.

Genjutsu is such a vague term. But IMO it's just an attack-category, just like Taijutsu and Ninjutsu.
Every attack-category has: Crowd control (soft and hard), Damage (Area of effect and single target), Utility (Heals and Buffs) (Plus Passives).
In that  sense, I presume that genjutsu could be everything from making the victim imagine getting stabbed (damage), to being stuck in a loop (hard cc, fixed timer, interupted by cc). And/or a mixture of the two. Tsukyomi could be both damage and stun. Aka a CC-DoT: Crowd Control + Damage over Time -> These are the once I would expect to be most of.

Not all genjutsu should be breakable. But those who are should be interupted depending on the categorization: Stun: Chakra-release, Immobilize: Self-inflict pain etc... IMO it should also break if you kill or (in some cases) damage the caster significantly. Breakable genjutsus should be the ones with long-lasting effects if nothing is done. E.g CC-DoTs or long-lasting hard-cc that break on damage.

Speaking of cc, it would nice to see some effects have a more interactive taste to them. E.g for blinds or jutsu that impairs vision darkening the user on the screen (as opposed to, as in most mmos, just represented with icons and uselessness for some abilities.)

[Kayleb]

I think genjutsu should do a small amount of damage. In every game I've ever played stuns and snares etc. do damage. It only makes sense. If somebody is going to be mentally incapable for a while it would disorientate them and do damage, so there's no reason for genjutsu not to imo

[m4r1us]

I think genjutsu should do a small amount of damage. In every game I've ever played stuns and snares etc. do damage. It only makes sense. If somebody is going to be mentally incapable for a while it would disorientate them and do damage, so there's no reason for genjutsu not to imo

I totally disagree. For one, genjutsu users will be extremely difficult to land hits on. Now add damage to that and bam, you have a hax set of skills. Secondly, I don't recall any instance of a genjutsu doing damage of physical nature in Naruto. They only do mental damage. The easiest way to do that would be to actually make them decrease the chakra of the victim. But genjutsu affecting the health bar? Totally against that.

[Kayleb]

I think genjutsu should do a small amount of damage. In every game I've ever played stuns and snares etc. do damage. It only makes sense. If somebody is going to be mentally incapable for a while it would disorientate them and do damage, so there's no reason for genjutsu not to imo

I totally disagree. For one, genjutsu users will be extremely difficult to land hits on. Now add damage to that and bam, you have a hax set of skills. Secondly, I don't recall any instance of a genjutsu doing damage of physical nature in Naruto. They only do mental damage. The easiest way to do that would be to actually make them decrease the chakra of the victim. But genjutsu affecting the health bar? Totally against that.

Mental damage is still damage

[m4r1us]

I think genjutsu should do a small amount of damage. In every game I've ever played stuns and snares etc. do damage. It only makes sense. If somebody is going to be mentally incapable for a while it would disorientate them and do damage, so there's no reason for genjutsu not to imo

I totally disagree. For one, genjutsu users will be extremely difficult to land hits on. Now add damage to that and bam, you have a hax set of skills. Secondly, I don't recall any instance of a genjutsu doing damage of physical nature in Naruto. They only do mental damage. The easiest way to do that would be to actually make them decrease the chakra of the victim. But genjutsu affecting the health bar? Totally against that.

Mental damage is still damage

Health represents physical damage.

[Nectarini]

Health represents physical damage.

In real life there are numerous examples where feelings manifest themselves as physical effects. And mental diseases inflicting physical capabilities. In the anime there are examples aswell: Kakashi was for instance hospitalized after an encounter with Itachi in which he was under the influence of his genjutsu Tsukyiomi.
"Just because this is a genjutsu, doesn't mean the pain isn't real" -Itachi

Should be noted that with jutsus like Tsukyomi the caster is 1. very sustainable to counters from third parties as he has to maintain eye-contact, high levels of concentration, and has to remain still for the entire duration (could have to do with latter point), 2. You go blind and suffer extreme immediate drawbacks if broken / countered, 3. Has the intial condition of eye contact.

I expect the result of something like Tsukyomi to be like the effect of a Malzahar ultimate from League of Legends. E.g, tons of damage, easily interupted, large resource cost, channeled / damage according to how long it is sustained, fixed upper limit. With the addition of: Self-damage (severe if broken). Would be very effective in a 1v1.
How Malzahar ulti looks like (not important, look at the notes above instead):

[Kayleb]

Health represents physical damage.

In real life there are numerous examples where feelings manifest themselves as physical effects. And mental diseases inflicting physical capabilities. In the anime there are examples aswell: Kakashi was for instance hospitalized after an encounter with Itachi in which he was under the influence of his genjutsu Tsukyiomi.
"Just because this is a genjutsu, doesn't mean the pain isn't real" -Itachi

Should be noted that with jutsus like Tsukyomi the caster is 1. very sustainable to counters from third parties as he has to maintain eye-contact, high levels of concentration, and has to remain still for the entire duration (could have to do with latter point), 2. You go blind and suffer extreme immediate drawbacks if broken / countered, 3. Has the intial condition of eye contact.

I expect the result of something like Tsukyomi to be like the effect of a Malzahar ultimate from League of Legends. E.g, tons of damage, easily interupted, large resource cost, channeled / damage according to how long it is sustained, fixed upper limit. With the addition of: Self-damage (severe if broken). Would be very effective in a 1v1.
How Malzahar ulti looks like (not important, look at the notes above instead):

He does raise a good point.

[m4r1us]

He does raise a good point.

No, he does not.

In the anime there are examples aswell: Kakashi was for instance hospitalized after an encounter with Itachi in which he was under the influence of his genjutsu Tsukyiomi.
"Just because this is a genjutsu, doesn't mean the pain isn't real" -Itachi

Kakashi was hospitalized because he passed out from MENTAL exhaustion, not because he suffered any kind of physical damage. Pain is a feeling caused by an external stimuli, not actual damage, therefore this point is highly invalid.

Should be noted that with jutsus like Tsukyomi the caster is 1. very sustainable to counters from third parties as he has to maintain eye-contact, high levels of concentration, and has to remain still for the entire duration (could have to do with latter point), 2. You go blind and suffer extreme immediate drawbacks if broken / countered, 3. Has the intial condition of eye contact.

I don't remember every genjutu being cast through eye contact. I have numerous proof including for example: Tayuya's flute, Iruka casting a genjutsu on Sakura in part one or Kurenai catching Itachi in that genjutsu, which happened about the same time Kakashi was caught in Tsukuyomi. Also Hashirama's bringer of darkness cast on Hiruzen. None of those jutsu actually caused any damage on the victim.
Since I noticed you like the Tsukuyomi example, I have a counter to that as well. If you remember, Itachi did catch Sasuke in Tsukuyomi in their fight in Part 2. However, when Sasuke broke free, he showed no sign of damage whatsoever. Literally any genjutsu we've seen in the series was used for the sole purpose of confusing the target, or in the most extreme cause making the victim pass out from MENTAL exhaustion.

I don't remember it ever being stated that you have to stay still when casting a genjutsu so that's not a disadvantage either. You go blind? It's the Mangekyo Sharingan that causes people to go blind, not casting a genjutsu lol.

If you take a look at the wiki, the Genjutsu page clearly states:
"However, the primary difference between the two is that the effects of genjutsu are illusory; instead of attacking the victim's body, like taijutsu or ninjutsu, genjutsu techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain, thus causing a disruption in their senses."

I think that pretty much sums it up. The wiki clearly states that I'm in the right so I don't know what else could be said anymore. Make Gen damage the chakra bar if anything.^

I expect the result of something like Tsukyomi to be like the effect of a Malzahar ultimate from League of Legends. E.g, tons of damage, easily interupted, large resource cost, channeled / damage according to how long it is sustained, fixed upper limit. With the addition of: Self-damage (severe if broken). Would be very effective in a 1v1.
How Malzahar ulti looks like (not important, look at the notes above instead):

No offense but LoL is a game that requires little to no skill, so let's not use it as an example. We should rather use it like a not-like-this example if anything. Shinobi Life Online's aiming for the exact opposite.

In the end, I'd like to say that things don't have to be completely symmetric. Just because Tai and Nin do physical damage doesn't mean we have to make genjutsu the same. Those who actually want to use Genjutsu would have to put up with that and compensate for that disadvantage by learning something to complement the lack of Gen's offensive capabilities. And with this, I want to end this here, these have been my 2 cents, you don't have to agree with me, the final decision is Vreg's.



A decision has been taken regarding Genjutsu doing damage or not.

As its name suggests, Genjutsu are techniques that only affect the target mentally and therefore, they won't do physical damage. The only way for a genjutsu to do physical damage will be by making the victim hurt itself. The main purpose of genjutsu, however, will be confusing the enemy and making him mentally unable to defend himself or attack. The Genjutsu user can therefore compensate for his lack in Ninjutsu and Taijutsu.

Since a decision has been taken this thread will be locked.