Jutsu Individuality and Flexibility

[NinjaMirage]

@Manuster

how can you suggest that anyone with masterful chakra control can learn any jutsu and be a master without any practice?? thats ridiculous and lazy

And yet it is cannon to the naruto universe and was astablisged early!!
Look at kakashi!! He has the sharingon that allowed him to analyze and copy the jutsu of others but he still needs the chakra control and skills to change the chakra nature and form!! He was able to copy the waterdragon jutsu with equal strength to the one zabuza used!! Even though it was not his jutsu and had never practiced it!! He could not copy the rasinshurakin or any KKG like wood style because he dose not have the skill needed for the combined form and nature transformation in the case of the rasangon or the combined nature transformations in the case of wood or ice style!! Jutsu are weapons!! They are special weapons designed for spacific uses!! But there still weapons!! When 2 players of equal skill use the same jutsu it dose not matter how has used it more!!

[Takoi]

He could not copy the rasinshurakin or any KKG like wood style because he dose not have the skill needed for the combined form and nature transformation in the case of the rasangon or the combined nature transformations in the case of wood or ice style!!

Just saying- Kakashi wasn't able to copy the rasengan because the rasengan had no hand seals. Therefore Kakashi could not copy it physically. For the wood and ice he couldn't copy them because he did not have the KG. The reason he wasn't able to copy them wasn't chakra control, it was because he simply did not have the KG. Back to the rasengan though- Kakashi stated that he could not copy the rasengan with the sharingan, which is why Sasuke was not able to copy it. Kakashi said he had to physically learn how to do the rasengan the same as naruto did- he had no shortcuts (other than the fact that he could see the chakra).

[Sjones]

Yes NinjaMirage, it's about the skill of the person, not the jutsu.

[Sjones]

He could not copy the rasinshurakin or any KKG like wood style because he dose not have the skill needed for the combined form and nature transformation in the case of the rasangon or the combined nature transformations in the case of wood or ice style!!

Just saying- Kakashi wasn't able to copy the rasengan because the rasengan had no hand seals. Therefore Kakashi could not copy it physically. For the wood and ice he couldn't copy them because he did not have the KG. The reason he wasn't able to copy them wasn't chakra control, it was because he simply did not have the KG. Back to the rasengan though- Kakashi stated that he could not copy the rasengan with the sharingan, which is why Sasuke was not able to copy it. Kakashi said he had to physically learn how to do the rasengan the same as naruto did- he had no shortcuts (other than the fact that he could see the chakra).

Which means chakra control is very important.

[Manuster]

"Chakra efficiency has nothing to do with "shape transformation". ", I said, "All chakra control is being able to mold and manipulate your chakra effectively to avoid over using the desire amount needed for the jutsu."

"The amount of damage a jutsu does has nothing to do with "shape transformation."", I was meaning for this,
"the width of the flame         100            10m wide
the length flame                 50              5m long
the height of the flame       17              1.7m high"

Which falls under "Shape Transformation", which falls under, "chakra control".
"Shape transformation is an advanced form of chakra control that involves changing the form and movement of chakra, determining the size, range, and purpose of a technique."

"We all saw Naruto improving his chakra control to LEARN rasengan. That's fine.

To improve it, did we see him go through those same exercises? Did we see him grind it before he could manipulate it's size, intensity, chakra cost?

No. He practiced it.", Never said that you don't have to practice it to master it. I said, "So before you train a jutsu, you must train to control your chakra before you go off spamming fireballs haha. Of course it makes sense to train your jutsu but a jutsu can only be mastered to a certain point".

THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS ABOUT IMPROVING JUTSU - NOT LEARNING JUTSU

But back at your point about changing the jutsu to how you want based on your skill of the jutsu. You really think in a  middle of a battle you wanna be changing stats?

You have different jutsus for different scenarios, The basic "fireball", is a mid range attack but it has two options in the narutoworld, 1 fast moving fireball to hit a target which you lose control over it onces it has been released so that means it can't be constant like the "firebreath" version which you have full control over the duration and size.

But if you want to f#ck up a army and you have mastery over firestyle you think someone wants to be changing their fireball stats into something like the, "Great Fire Annihilation" when you can just use the jutsu with that power and call it a day?

Please reread the original suggestion.

You do not assign attributes mid battle.

"Great Fire Annihilation" is a firebreath jutsu with high width, high height, low length, high damage.

Should I learn a completely new jutsu if I want it with low height? Or with low damage? What if I want a wider jutsu? What if I want a more concentrated flame? Or a high fire jutsu but not a wide one? What if I want a short, highly powerful beam of fire? Or a long distance fire breath with higher damage than normal?

What if I have earth dome, but I want a smaller earth dome? Or a bigger earth dome? Or a lower earth dome? Or an earth dome that lasts alot longer than normal? Or an earth dome that can withstand a lot more damage than normal?

What if I have a wind bullet, but I want it to be more or less powerful? Or I want it to travel further or slower?

What if I have an earth wall that I want to be higher? Or wider? Or thicker? Or stay up for longer?



Or any combination of any of these values?


Should I learn a completely new set of keys for each and every possible fire breath jutsu?

[Manuster]

@Manuster

how can you suggest that anyone with masterful chakra control can learn any jutsu and be a master without any practice?? thats ridiculous and lazy

And yet it is cannon to the naruto universe and was astablisged early!!
Look at kakashi!! He has the sharingon that allowed him to analyze and copy the jutsu of others but he still needs the chakra control and skills to change the chakra nature and form!! He was able to copy the waterdragon jutsu with equal strength to the one zabuza used!! Even though it was not his jutsu and had never practiced it!! He could not copy the rasinshurakin or any KKG like wood style because he dose not have the skill needed for the combined form and nature transformation in the case of the rasangon or the combined nature transformations in the case of wood or ice style!! Jutsu are weapons!! They are special weapons designed for spacific uses!! But there still weapons!! When 2 players of equal skill use the same jutsu it dose not matter how has used it more!!

Lol you're right.

I'm retarded.

Lets just copy the sharigan while we're at it because it's canon


And please stop saying jutsu are weapons. Weapons are weapons. The equivalent of weapons in the naruto world are...weapons.

"Jutsu (術, Literally meaning: skills/techniques)"

[Manuster]

You guys do realise that by making chakra control the be all and end all of how powerful a jutsu is, the game is literally just a grind to see who can get the best chakra control?

My system means that for a single jutsu you have literally countless alterations. My system makes the game both skill based and thought based.

[Sjones]

physical energy and spiritual energy= Chakra, To use Chakra for anything be it, walking on water, tree climbing, genjutsu, ninjutsu, medical ninjutsu, etc, you need "Chakra control", it's part of the foundation.

After Basic Chakra control is more advanced stuff like "Shape Transformation" for jutsus like the "Rasengan" (which requires high chakra control), then add that with, "Nature Transformation" which gives your chakra the element you have a affinity for, be it, water, fire, earth, lightning, wind or even a KG.

So these sound be the basics of skills before you can perform jutsus or techniques. It's all for the realism, if it's logical it should be added.

[NinjaMirage]

KKG not aligned with kaguya s bloodline (I.e.the uchiha and huga)are unique skills of being able to activate 2 or even 3 natures at the same time- somthing kakashi dose not have the skill to do even though he can use 4 different natures!! Yamato explained this when naruto was training his wind change in nature!! Woodstyle is a skill that can only be learned by some!! Baruto

Spoiler: show

In Baruto it looks as though mowiki also can use woodstyle!! And there is no link to any relation to Yamato or the first hokage!!

However that is besides the point!! kakashi still was able to perform the same jutsu at equal skill to zabuza!! This is because of his skill of chakra control, nature, and form change!!

your forcusing on the pvp aspect of the game, @Manuster!! Yes everyone will want to naturally train chakra control to its highest degree!! And one v one this means that no one will be more powerful then anyone else!!
But How they use there jutsu in combat is the difference!! Eventually I agree this should include changing the form of a jutsu like the way Sasuke did with chidori, senbon,stream,and blade!! But for the sake of the programming team, character stats should come first!!

[Manuster]

physical energy and spiritual energy= Chakra, To use Chakra for anything be it, walking on water, tree climbing, genjutsu, ninjutsu, medical ninjutsu, etc, you need "Chakra control", it's part of the foundation.

After Basic Chakra control is more advanced stuff like "Shape Transformation" for jutsus like the "Rasengan" (which requires high chakra control), then add that with, "Nature Transformation" which gives your chakra the element you have a affinity for, be it, water, fire, earth, lightning, wind or even a KG.

So these sound be the basics of skills before you can perform jutsus or techniques. It's all for the realism, if it's logical it should be added.

I agree.

Chakra control is needed to learn a jutsu.

Now do you have any comments about improving and altering jutsu? Like my thread was about?

KKG not aligned with kaguya s bloodline (I.e.the uchiha and huga)are unique skills of being able to activate 2 or even 3 natures at the same time- somthing kakashi dose not have the skill to do even though he can use 4 different natures!! Yamato explained this when naruto was training his wind change in nature!! Woodstyle is a skill that can only be learned by some!! Baruto

Spoiler: show

In Baruto it looks as though mowiki also can use woodstyle!! And there is no link to any relation to Yamato or the first hokage!!

However that is besides the point!! kakashi still was able to perform the same jutsu at equal skill to zabuza!! This is because of his skill of chakra control, nature, and form change!!

You do realise how stupidly OP that is? You can use ANY jutsu at a master level
 at your first go because you have master level chakra control?

How is that NOT a grind based game?!?!?!

[Sjones]

Chakra control is the first skill a shinobi needs to even perform a jutsu, so of course it is import for someone to master chakra control. But to your point of being able to change the jutsu stats, it ruins the option of justsus and makes the willingness to learn meaningless.

let's switch to a different jutsu of a different element, let's say you have a jutsu like a "water cannon", and you want to make a wave like jutsu, should there be a jutsu for that or do you want to change your jutsu for that one purpose ?
Having a library of jutsu to learn and use in battle sounds better, you can memorize a set of your favorite jutsus for combat. Which was the point of the game of being realistic.

Let's bring in a real world example, you have a road bike but you wanna go off road, will you change that bike to fit the scenario or get a vehicle to do the task? Not the best example haha

[Sjones]

"You do realise how stupidly OP that is? You can use ANY jutsu at a master level
 at your first go because you have master level chakra control?

How is that NOT a grind based game?!?!?!"

Sharingan is not the best example for this because it's hard to understand it's functions but another example you can use is when Boruto learned the hand seals for a wind jutsu he saw Mitsuki using, Boruto didn't get it right until he kept practicing, which is even realistic in the Narutoverse.

But as I have never said you have to practice a jutsu to master it, I agree with that part, I just don't agree with changing the jutsu to what you want when you feel like. A new set jutsu for that should be made that is balanced for SLO.

[NinjaMirage]

@Manuster it is OP!! The Sharingon is an OP KKG!! It allows someone to grind out and hone skills and spend little to no time practicing these skills when applied to a jutsu!!

Learning jutsu in game should take time based on the intelligents of your character!!  Like it did for every other character in naruto that was not an uchiha!!

Once you master a jutsu- finish learning it-
Then monipulatimg it could be a simple key stroke but the stats of the jutsu should not change- except for maybe a small reduction in chakra coast every time you use that jutsu!!

But the jutsu should be active and your skill in change in form should be higher then the needed rank for that jutsu! So if your jonin rank and you have mastered a chunin rank jutsu you can change the form of the jutsu to one other form!!

I might want to shrink earth dome to a chrushing size but it would be too OP!! Should I be able to adjust the damage of the jutsu?? No jutsu need to be set!! Just because we might want to do something with that jutsu dose not mean an indie developer can do it in his life time- I don't care how good they are!!

[Manuster]

Chakra control is the first skill a shinobi needs to even perform a jutsu, so of course it is import for someone to master chakra control. But to your point of being able to change the jutsu stats, it ruins the option of justsus and makes the willingness to learn meaningless.

let's switch to a different jutsu of a different element, let's say you have a jutsu like a "water cannon", and you want to make a wave like jutsu, should there be a jutsu for that or do you want to change your jutsu for that one purpose ?
Having a library of jutsu to learn and use in battle sounds better, you can memorize a set of your favorite jutsus for combat. Which was the point of the game of being realistic.

Let's bring in a real world example, you have a road bike but you wanna go off road, will you change that bike to fit the scenario or get a vehicle to do the task? Not the best example haha

Bruh.

Are you complaining that I'm making it too flexible?

Not only is that a matter of perspective. It would also be utterly impossible for someone to only learn 1 jutsu to fit all their combat needs. And if somebody wanted to, then isn't that their loss and your benefit? Isn't that their choice?

Second point is that since we're making it realistic, how many jutsu do we see Naruto using? Or Sasuke? Or...anyone else...?

My third point is that, that is exactly why I only made 3 presets - you can have a maximum of 3 iterations of firebreath jutsu.

And my 4th point is that jutsu is not like a bike??? It's a technique. I literally quoted that. If you want to compare it, compare it to playing the piano and compare a single jutsu to a single song. Yeah, we have one "standard" way to play it, but everyone has their own desired remix, cover, version. And if people want to live with one "song" but with 3 covers then let them.


Erm.

Why are you guys acting like sharingan was the issue here? NinjaMirage did not mention sharingan.

However that is besides the point!! kakashi still was able to perform the same jutsu at equal skill to zabuza!! This is because of his skill of chakra control, nature, and form change!!

You do realise how stupidly OP that is? You can use ANY jutsu at a master level
 at your first go because you have master level chakra control?

How is that NOT a grind based game?!?!?!

You see, no sharingan was mentioned. The issue is chakra control being tied with ones ability to master jutsu.

THAT is what is stupidly OP, not sharingan (i mean it is but I wasnt talkign about it). Don't blame the poor red eyes of sharingan, they get enough shit as it is.

My issue is with chakra control. My post was in response to chakra control. I actually don't know what u guys are responding to lol

[Sjones]

All i'm saying is, your system takes away the RPG part of the game, if there is only a few jutsus to learn and master for every element that takes away the joy of learning, training and memorizing the jutsu. We need multiple jutsus to learn to get us busy.

NinjaMirage's organization is, "Jutsu Hunter", what jutsu can he hunt lol?

It's not a bad idea but it wouldn't work for SLO.