If you could pic only 2 jutsu to master!!

[NinjaMirage]

So this thread has a very spacific perpose. Try and think of the 2 jutsu That would make you unbeatable. This dose not include jinchuiki powers and sage mode jutsu!! Sence they are obviously overpowered. Also leave out any uchiha KKG, this includes rennegon!! I wanted to make this thread to show the devs that it will only take 2 jutsu to make someone overpower if they allow players to use any skill tree they want with out restrictions.

Think of 2 that would make you offensively unstoppable, and 2 that would make you defensively untouchable!!

Use this format

Code: [Select]

[b]Offence jutsu[/b]
[b]jutsu 1[/b]
[b]jutsu 2[/b]
[b]reason[/b]

[b]Defensive Jutsu[/b]
[b]jutsu 1[/b]
[b]jutsu 2[/b]
[b]reason[/b]

KKG are allowed however KKM are not so no particle style, as it is already indefensible, only avoidable.

[Alanok]

Interesting, I do not think it will harm me to give it a try. I did a small research on techniques that may have potential.

Offence jutsu
jutsu 1 Scorch Release: Extremely Steaming Murder
jutsu 2 Leaf Village Secret Finger Jutsu: One Thousand Years of Death
reason Of course this specific scorch release technique will not be implemented, but if you consider that wind techniques are ranged and fire techniques have a big 'damage per second' effect, then scorch skills could be about ranged high damage skills, some kind of 'glass cannon' in other words. The finger technique may sound like a joke, but it is actually a metaphor as well: think in a taijutsu technique that deals critical/bonus damage if used against your opponent's blind spot, or behind his/her back.

Defensive Jutsu
jutsu 1 Armor of Sticky Gold
jutsu 2 Body Replacement Technique
reason Of course a kekkei genkai like the one Kidomaru have will not be implemented, but if you have a passive skill that provides physical resistence then you can focus in powerful ranged skills without worrying too much about being interrupted. Replacing your body for a log will also give you a last second defense against ranged attacks.

[DarthTyrael]

Defensive Jutsu
jutsu 1 Wind armor
jutsu 2 Lightning armor
reason
Wind can blow away water and fire jutsu, whereas lightning armor can block earth and wind (iirc). Both of them combined can really hurt taijutsu users & the lightning can travel through metal objects, so even if you're using a weapon, prepare to get shocked.

Donno bout offensive jutsu though.

[NinjaMirage]

These are good!! I was thinking of several that have bin considered.

Offense
Jutsu 1 flying thunder God
Jutsu 2 Scorch Release: Extremely Steaming Murder

Reason.
Even if you nerf flying thunder God and limmit the formula to tags. The range of extreme steaming murder is it's only real weekness. It's an instant kill jutsu so will likely not be in game or be nurfed but combined with a tagged target there will be no time to evade or defend against this combination.

Defense
Jutsu 1:Creation rebirth
Jutsu 2:Rock armor

Reason Rock armor is impenetrable by anything except lightning jutsu. If that happens creation rebirth will heal any damage that gets through.

[Dragon6624]

           ...Doesn't this only prove that --as everyone should've already thought-- the jutsu themselves need to be balanced, rather than incorporating specific rock-paper-scissors restrictions on your choice of jutsu?

           Assuming for a second that Vreg&Friends aren't complete morons who never listen to the feedback of the people using their jutsu, and who also don't have two brain-cells to think with...the nature of players --some, anyway-- is to find the most efficient, simplistic way to win. Now with all of the jutsu that are going to be available, how many combinations do you think are possible? How many of them will likely rival each other in terms of effectiveness, especially given that your character will be naturally stronger in training with some jutsu and weaker with others (Chakra-type will more than likely severely limit your strength with jutsu not of its affinity)? I'm guessing more than a handful of combinations, at least.

          Now restrict how many jutsu types you can learn (additionally, this is also being hampered by StarWarsGalaxies levels of *mastery* times, per jutsu)....I'm guessing you'll still find a handful, at least. Why? Because players will continue to seek out the best combinations possible, and unless you're working with a simple list of 3-5 examples, I can guarantee that there'll always be several methods for knocking the wind out of your opponents. Even *if* one specific combination is slightly more useful than the other power-houses...is that only factoring in solo-duels? "When facing an opponent of superior skill, use superior numbers."

It won't be the two jutsu that you'll be worrying about, it'll be the group of people using several dozen in tandem. Therefore, the balance of the jutsu themselves should be the focus of your anxiety here, not necessarily the extent of your choice of techniques.

Edit: If anything, I'd mostly be worried about how the KKG will be incorporated into the game. Some --such as magnetism-- could be pretty hard counters, even to groups of players...though of course, you'll probably be banking on ambushing your opponents most of the time.

[NinjaMirage]

The thing is if you look at the jutsu creation thread you will see a wide verity of jutsu that people want to see. But if everything is possible for everyone limited only by nature then things will combine to be OP. If you then try and make every jutsu equal so they don't combine to be op. Then there's no point in grinding out new jutsu. I still think the best way is to let the character skills grow instead of just training jutsu that have to be equal but I know I'm in the minority.

And we have not seen any consistency in jutsu. Chidori should hit through earth dome, not fire breath. If there going to put thought in to jutsu, alowing glitches as feathers has to stop. I know it's fun now to combine the two but it kinda is op already.

In the introduction this is what  excited me the most but now concerns me the most!!

"Our goal is to create a world without limitations or restrictions. A world that allows you, as a player, to live the daily life of a shinobi - one created and deeply customized by you. " but it also says in the very next paragraph that :" Every feature of Shinobi Life Online aims to create and simulate a realistic virtual shinobi world." this is why we can't choose are natures. But in reality humans have limitations, no one can master everything. If we can't choose are natures then we should have to choose what are focuse as Shinobi will be, will we be Genjutsu types week in close combate. Or will we be Taijutsu types weekin ninjutsu. Or will we be ninjutsu types week in Genjutsu. Will we study medical skills or sencery abuilitys. You can still customize your characters like this and use everything but you won't be good at something.

[Dragon6624]

          People want to see jutsu *like those*, yeah, but it was always my impression that the Jutsu Creation thread was mostly there to give the developers extra ideas to work off of. The Jutsu themselves will combine to be OP regardless of whether or not you place restrictions on which ones can be learned with which...that's the nature of variety in a competitive environment -- and personally, I'd rather have a broad rainbow of potentially OP combinations to counter one another as opposed to forcing everyone into a simple few molds that are both harder to adjust and balance as a whole, and less fun and intuitive. Leaving everything on the table makes it easier to balance out metas when introducing new Jutsu as well, as far more possible combinations for counters can be discovered. By promoting excessive freedom of choice, you'll end up promoting balance through variety alongside of it.

          Additionally, this game aims for a fairly lengthy training system -- involving hours/days/weeks/MONTHS of training to *Truly* master individual jutsu (and thus become as effective as you can with them, accentuated by your Nature of course)...and that's not even counting in having to practice these jutsu in live firefights with enemy shinobi equally looking to strengthen themselves. Then you have the very nature of the villages themselves, how each will constantly be stealing the scrolls (I'm assuming the basic scrolls will usually be relatively safe, but the advanced techniques will become prime targets for agents to smuggle) from each other in order to prevent their enemies from even *beginning* to teach their shinobi specific jutsu. And then on top of that, some characters will end up actually, permanently dying in the wilderness trying to become those S-Ranked Shinobi...time waits for no ninja.

          We can't master everything, yes, because it would take too long. If you want to narrow down a few metas here and there, consider the amount of time each meta-player is going to have to sink into truly perfecting their styles. As Vreg said for combat speed: "I don't think it's fair for a player to be running XX fast before entering combat, just to arbitrarily lose all of that just because they got into a scrap." By extension of this, the only factors limiting how you want your shinobi to play should be their basic biology and the amount of time you're willing to sink into their training/combat.

          And again, should *all else fail* -- should a select few players actually manage the luck, skill and time to develop characters of immense power, even if they aren't KKG-capable to begin with...good on them. Good on them, so long as their characters live. Sooner or later, numbers will always add up, and old champions will meet their match against the odds of skill...or chance.

Spoiler: show

Wild Tangent Inbound:

          Hell, if you really wanted to emphasize a good risk-reward factor to characters fighting in the Wilderness against enemy shinobi, all you'd need to do would be increase the amount of exp they earn for their jutsu while participating in combat there. Sure, you could always take the long, safe route of training your entire life within the safety of the village boundaries...but having the option to roll the dice and gain massive boosts in the perma-death zones adds extra tension, a bit of a balance factor...and a really, REALLY good reason for there to be constant combat in the one place most players won't be particularly comfortable going into (making it far more difficult to just sneak through these areas, as encounter rates will be higher and more players will be aware of the lay-of-the-land).

          It might even adjust some players to the fact that it's okay to *lose* characters forever...there's always another chance to build one even stronger the next time. On top of that, combat in the Wilderness would also emphasize teamwork and efficient combat strategies...to the point that the best players could probably be seen most often duking it out in these high-risk zones, fighting over scrolls, raiding Rogue Organization Hideouts and even chasing down enemy agents through the trees/hills/mists/dunes. I imagine many a Kakashi will be born of the encounters within these perma-death zones ^_^).

[NinjaMirage]

I agree with you that biology is the key to human limitations. And time is a key factor. There is a saying in frefrence to knowledge and physical abuility that " if you don't use it you loose it!" I'm not suggesting limiting the abuility to learn everything just that if you spend the time to master something and try and move on to another, the quality of the previously mastered skills go down to make room for new skills. I'm suggesting that you should choose jutsu and techniques carefully to match you spacific fighting style and ply with people that complete your fighting style. If you can learn everything and put togeather any combinations of jutsu yourself there is no need for team play. And this is comeong from someone with 1 person in his clan and will likely solo most of the time. I still think it's important!!

[Toratsume Nyshn]

Offence jutsu
jutsu 1 Flying Raijin
jutsu 2 Shurikenjutsu
reason This combination is the perfect offense if one is able to master it completely. Flying Raijin gives the user speed and range versatility while shurikenjutsu can be used as a lethal weapon based attack, which combined with the former can be swift and devastating on the opponent.

Defensive Jutsu
jutsu 1 Rock Armament
jutsu 2 Earth Dome
reason Earth dome is a near perfect defensive. While Armament will provide armature to your frame, partial/localised armament (A focused version of the jutsu) can also assist in offensive attacks along with the flying raijin

[NinjaMirage]

Those are good TN!!

How about this for Taijutsu.
Offense/ defense
Jutsu 1 eight inner gates
Jutsu 2 body revival jutsu
Reason:
Eight inner gates destroys muscles as the chakra flows through the body increasing strength and speed. However body revival jutsu
Repidly repairs the damage from this jutsu and increase your strength even more.( this was actually in one of the movies)

And god help you if they know
Genjutsu binding as well!!

[Dragon6624]

          Well, that seems to change the whole nature of the original argument -- but if that's the case you were trying to present (that being, you shouldn't be allowed to remain perfect and thus master everything without ever having to continue practicing past a certain point...aka, the opposite of Hanzo The Salamander), then I've got nothing against that type of a system.

Spoiler: show

          As a rider though, I think we should compensate people who leave the game for a long time (say...a month or more) with a system that briefly allows them to brush up the stats on older(dormant) techniques...like any skill, you shouldn't *completely* forget how to perform it.

 A slight booster to the exp they gain when training/fighting for an hour or so every day for a week, perhaps?

Edit: Just for that character, that is.

[NinjaMirage]

And I'm not saying you forget everything. Anything dealing with stamina could remain constant. A real world example is riding a bike. Once you learn how to balance on a bike you can always do it. It's muscle memery!! But chakra bassed skills should require constant training to keep sharp. Once you have learned how to make your chakra in to dome shape for example then you know that and won't forget it. But if you use it more it will go up faster and stay longer then if you have not played for months.  In this way (using jutsu already in game,) we fix the problem of throwing up earth dome and haveing 30 seconds to blast the trapped player with 20 seconds of fire breath because the only limit is the amount of chakra you have.  To be able to do this you should have to train in ninjutsu and stamina for a long time and obviously be lucky enuph to have both fire and earth natures of course. ( also assuming they leave the jutsu s the way they are now, witch I hope they don't)

And the math is easy to your question about combinations of jutsu. They are going to be 20 jutsu of each nature and I would guess at least that many of medical and genjutsu. This dose not count Fuinjutsu formulas and Taijutsu and bukijutsu combos. (Edit)

So according to the FAQ there will only be 60 jutsu.

If there are 3 sets of 20 that's 60 jutsu. If you combine 2 sets then your looking at 60x60 =That's 3600 combinations of Jutsu. now let's assume that half of those don't mix well essentially canceling each other out. That leave 1800 combinations that will be effective to some degree when they are combined with each other. Subtract 60 for the double numbers(1 and 1 of the same set) that leaves 1740 jutsu combinations they have to make sure are week and balance enuph that when combined are not OP. But also strong enough to be usfull to the user!!

This is why it would be much easier to balance player skills then all the jutsu.

Also I doubt that 20 jutsu is going to be enuph when there are potential 11 legacy jutsu that would need to be accounted for.

[Takoi]

So according to the FAQ there will only be 60 jutsu.

If there are 3 sets of 20 that's 60 jutsu. If you combine 2 sets then your looking at 60x60 =That's 3600 combinations of Jutsu. now let's assume that half of those don't mix well essentially canceling each other out. That leave 1800 combinations that will be effective to some degree when they are combined with each other. Subtract 60 for the double numbers(1 and 1 of the same set) that leaves 1740 jutsu combinations they have to make sure are week and balance enuph that when combined are not OP. But also strong enough to be usfull to the user!!

This is why it would be much easier to balance player skills then all the jutsu.

If there are 60 jutsu in total and you want to use 2 sets wouldn't the combinations be 60x40 cause the first set you can select from all 60 and after that since you already know 20 there is 40 left?

[NinjaMirage]

So according to the FAQ there will only be 60 jutsu.

If there are 3 sets of 20 that's 60 jutsu. If you combine 2 sets then your looking at 60x60 =That's 3600 combinations of Jutsu. now let's assume that half of those don't mix well essentially canceling each other out. That leave 1800 combinations that will be effective to some degree when they are combined with each other. Subtract 60 for the double numbers(1 and 1 of the same set) that leaves 1740 jutsu combinations they have to make sure are week and balance enuph that when combined are not OP. But also strong enough to be usfull to the user!!

This is why it would be much easier to balance player skills then all the jutsu.

If there are 60 jutsu in total and you want to use 2 sets wouldn't the combinations be 60x40 cause the first set you can select from all 60 and after that since you already know 20 there is 40 left?

No because there are 60 pairs of the same 2 jutsu. I.E. fire breath and fire breath. So unless there planing on makeing these combine to make another type of more powerful jutsu you can ignore 60 combinations.
also you use 60 because order matters, like in the case of earth dome and fire breath.
One way it is op the other it is not.