Kenjutsu(Sword's combat):I Thought about a better way to make it(in my opinion).

[yarden]

Hello everybody.
So today I saw the sword's combat for the first time:)
And in my opinion, it looks kinda bad and boring.

You made an awesome game , but the sword's combat destroys it .

Before i am starting to talk about my idea , as we all knows , swords take important part  the anime "Naruto".

There are alot of main characters who using it.
Sasuke , Zabuza, Bee , Suigetsu more and more.
I think you should give it an important place in the game

I thought about a better way to make it.
Ok . so what did I have thought about?
I thought about "hit directions".
What do I mean ?

I means:4 directions: up, down, left, right.
If you want to hit with a sword you need to choose the direction you want to hit him.
Every side gets the same damage to make a ballance.

But there is a catch: you can dodge the hit by blocking to the same direction he hits you.

For example: If your enemy attacks you from the right side but you dodges to the left side up or down you receive the damage.
But! if you dodge to the right side you don't receive the damage and there will be a sound of sword's hit.
like this: .
Just yours. and better:)


You can make more directions like up right and up left (but if your opponent hits you from the right up side and you block to the right side you don't receive any damage)
I think it's necessary to give more "live" to the sword's combat.

In other hand , you can make it a bit different.
What do i mean ?
I means , there will be hit's directions but it's not necessary to match the blocking.

If your enemy attacks you from the left side and you press on the rmb it's automatic dodge the left side .
The same with the other directions.

I wish to know what do you think about it:)
Thanks!

[Reminance]

There will be combinations, this is just a test version of Kenjutsu.
If this would be the complete Kenjutsu set we all would be fucked in the MMO.

[yarden]

OH Im sure that wasent the completed version.
But i want to give my opinion before they finish it:)

[Reminance]

Alright but you might want to tag some devs next time :p
@Vreg Something for you, i know you have an answer.

[AbeMelbs]

Sounds very much like For Honor imo

[Keyn]

True it sounds to other games gameplay

[AY0]

I Agree.

[Tameshi Hinode]

Im against this.

It seems that,since mount and blade,people always want direction based melee combat.
Im getting tired of this...


But ofcourse,,i personally dont like it''is not a valid reason to not implement this,since there are many other people in the game aswell.
So i will give another reason why im against it:
The game is very fast.
Its allready very hard to hit someone who is dodging/running all the time,and then you would also have to choose a direction for the attack.
The person who is defending,would not only have to react to the attack(and know when the attack happens and when its just a feint),he would also have to see where his opponent is attacking from,and combined with 60kmh jumps and dodges,along with,,circle running''......no.
I also play for honor and i really enjoy it.
But this just wouldnt work out well in SLO.
I can allready see the latency issues that will make it difficult to react with lightning fast reflexes(imagine all this,in a mmo with hundreds of players).
For honor,mount and blade and similar games,those are not mmos,they dont have this problem.
Also,they are much slower.
There are no wallruns or fast sprints,players have enough time to block someones attack because the animations are slow enough and people dont move so fast.
This doesnt work in SLO,where its about speed.
Another point:if simple blocking will be too hard,people will not use it and try to dodge instead or switch to ninjutsu.
I also expect that we will get multiple kenjutsu attacks,and i dont think that they would all have a,,attack direction''.

A normal defence stance would be better for SLO.
Depending on how skilled you are with blocking,the more damage it would absorb.
Blocking should use stamina though.
There could also be a,,timing''bonus.
Like,if you block right before a attack,you absorb more damage,or you get another bonus.
To make combat more enjoyable and complex,there could be guardbreakers,special attacks,combos,dash attacks,certain attacks you can use while in the air,counters......

PS:4 directions would be too much anyway.
Even for honor just uses 3 directions.
The majority of players will not be able to deal with this,combined with SLO,s fast paced combat.
And the games playerbase is allready very small,compared to other mmos.
A combat system like this,would only be enjoyable for a very small percent of the community:the hardcore gamers who are familiar with this kind of combat from for honor or mount and blade(but i think,even they will not like it,because of the reasons i wrote above).
The rest will find it too difficult and just switch to other fighting styles or another game.
Kenjutsu will have enough attacks and tactics to use,directional blocking isnt needed and even if its added,4 directions are too much.

[yarden]

Maybe match dodging direction to hit's direction is too hard for this game.

But there should be hit's directions in my opinion.
Even if you just need a simple click to block it.

And I don't know how for honor looks like , I have never played tgis game

[Tameshi Hinode]

Why add directions for dodging/blocking at all?
Aiming with the camera,following a,,you hit what you look at''rule,can work out too.

I mean,you can have your own oppinion,and you can like or dislike my idea,nothing against it.
But i wrote multiple arguments against this system,and you reply with,,but there should be''.
Please dont take this the wrong way.
Im not angry and dont want to sound rude,but i just dont see why your sugestion would fit the game,besides,,i like this combat system,so it should be added''.
How many mmo,s do you know,who use this kind of combat system?
Right now,there are 2 mmos that i know and that have this kind of combat system.
Gloria victis,and mortal online.
Gloria victis has no direction based blocking yet,but the gameplay will be much slower than SLO.
Mortal online has directional blocking and attacking,but just 3 directions and 1 of the directions you can block from,is a,,regular block''that can block everything,but doesnt absorb as much damage as a perfect block.
Also....mortal online,s combat system is much slower than SLO aswell.

Thats what i talked about,SLO is too fast paced for this kind of combat system.

[yarden]

So as i said there is option 2 :
Auto blocking.
Those 4 directions are only for a veriety combat.

Yep , agree that slo is too fast so maybe ocking system would be too hard.

So option 2 is optional idea.

[Tameshi Hinode]

Well....that can be added,but i dont really see the use of directional attacks if there is no directional blocking.
If you want more diversity for kenjutsu,well,i want this too.
But this could also be achieved trough adding different attacks,like a fast and a heavy attack,or a attack with a long range.
Again,direction based attacks could be added.....but they would just needlessly make the controls a little bit more complicated(we allready have do dodge with the c key....).
I dont think that many people would change the direction of ther attacks while they are sprinting at full speed,if they dont have to,since they will do the same ammount of damage anyway and there are no directional blocks.

Like reminance said,the melee system we have now,is not even close to beeing finished,you will have different options available,when it comes to attacking someone via kenjutsu

[DimitriiD]

I kinda see where both of you are coming from. But I'm pretty sure the combat it's not always going to be about 'speed'. Right now people are running around like crazy jumping and spinning but if that was the case then when the game came out there would be absolutely no point in playing a character that specializes in taijutsu. If I am a taijutsu character that can't have a combat with someone because the game doesn't allow me to then there is no point in doing so. I agree that there should be directional hit, but you don't really have to use it unless you want to, since some people could be characters that use distance as a fighting style. What I'm trying to say is that the directional hit could work, but it needs to be slower gameplay. As you said it's not even close to being finished and since it is going to be an MMO where there are many people fighting at once it could be problematic but there are ways of making it work. Here is the thing, I believe it would be a great way to immerse into the game and actually showing who is a good player using taijutsu. I wouldn't like having a character that I've been playing for 3 months to try and perfect him and out of nowhere someone lvls up his own character maxing his taijutsu ,or training and getting more effective at it (depending on the final's game system), to be able to be as effective as I am by smashing an attack button and being as effective as I am without any knowledge. And since this game it is said to be hardcore, well it's not easy to 2v1 in Naruto, it shouldn't be easy here. It can definetly work if there is some though and feedback into it. As I said, for me, the first step is to make the combat slower, running fast and jumping on walls and such shouldn't be able to be done while in combat, imo.
Btw, there is a 4 hit system, watch Absolver, it's a game based on martial arts, it's all hand to hand combat.

[Tameshi Hinode]

Im very sure that the gameplay will be slower later,and there will also be a soft-lock system so you can target opponents easier.
This should be very useful for melee combat.
But still,SLO will be much faster than most other mmo,s.
And it will be based on a anime.
That means,fast and stylish looking attacks.
Directional combat is normally used for realistic/historical/slow combat.

Mount and blade:Slow movement,historical and realistic theme,not a mmo.
Gloria victis:Medieval and realistic theme,slow movement.
Mortal online:Slow movement,low fantasy with the focus on realism.
For honor:Combat is a bit faster,but the movement is still very slow,has a realistic and(partly)historic background,isnt a mmo.

Do you see what i mean?
I cant think of a single mmo that is based on a anime,and has directional combat.
Anime combat is more about running at your enemy and seeing some flashy attacks or counters.
Not sitting back and making slow,direction based attacks,observing your opponent while slowly circling around......that sounds more like something out of a knight based movie.
Combat itself should be based on muscle memory and reflexes,i think.
The tactical part comes into play,when you decide when to use what attack/jutsu and how you could combine them,or how you could trick your opponent.
Adding directional attacks and blocks,would make the combat even slower and boring.
Too much thinking,not enough action going on.
And that wouldnt be right for a game that is based on naruto.
Yes,there are often long breaks and they talk and talk and talk.....But when combat finally starts....


Thats a taijutsu battle,but i think kenjutsu should work in a similiar way.
The last thing that comes to my mind when i watch a fight like this,is directional blocking or attacking.

I think that a system,similiar to rakion,would be the way to go.

There are basic combos,Sprint attacks,jump attacks,a grapple,and a special attack-combo.
You can block,but its not direction based.
The thing is:you can only block basic combo,s/sprint/jump attacks.
A special attack-combo and a grapple,are unblockable and if you block normal attacks,you can get knocked back while blocking.
Its fast,it looks great and it just feels awesome.

We should also not forget that SLO isnt based on kenjutsu,there are other fighting styles aswell.
Kenjutsu users shouldnt have to go trough a,,directional attacking and blocking''system,while all others dont have to do this.
I also dont think it would work out well with the controls.

[DimitriiD]

As I mentioned earlier, I see both points and while personally I would prefer a directional hit system, it would be too much trouble to put into action for it to actually work. The second clip you showed might be the type of combat there will be, as long as the combat is skill based I am happy with it and have no problem, I don't know why but for some reason the classic hack and slash kinda pushes me off (maybe I've played too many types of games that are like that), but its probably the way to go, obviously as you mentioned in the vid with some game mechanics like dodging and parries... etc. It would be pretty cool if they implemented a mechanic where you can disarm your enemy, and you pick up their weapon. For now we'll have to wait until they show tell us how they are planning on making combat, but yeah, thanks for replying