Buildings usage,Rank system & Exams

[NinjaMirage]

But @TheStylee is right!!! It will be very slow and subtle to have each skill slowly grow by use!!

Now subtlety is not a bad thing but the reason all the major Mmorpgs are so successful is because of the instent gratification from a in your face LEVEL UP!!

Now this game should not and will not have that!! But there should be a well thought out reason why you are able to learn different things!! If not my system then I'm interested in what???

Also as far as ranking goes, I am still not totally convinced ELO is the right way to do it. I have made the argument before that every game I can think of that uses a ELO system is one on one. Clash of clans, chess, other phone apps are not multiplayer when it comes to the actual game play. there is no need to worry about someone coming in and stealing a kill.(sniping as manuster called it)
I still don't see how ELO will work in a Mmorpg
Groups won't work because you won't be with the same group for the hole game
Individual won't work because of sniping.
And even if you somehow managed to come up with a new accurate form of ELO only for this game, what's the point when it dose nothing for the character and only convays the player skills at the game.

[TheStylee]

@NinjaMirage  Don't get me wrong.Elo system would be a nice thing.It could work even for clans and organisations.It can be a top and most important thing , it show us the difference between a good genin and a bad one.But my asks ,suggestions and posts are almost all about why should promotions from a rank to another( genin - > chunnin etc) should have anything to do with ELO. I mean yes,elo is a difference between a good one and a better one,but growing up in rank should NOTHING have to do with elo.this PLUS hardcore game where you can die permanentaly.I am agree tho with a fight in area where dead doesnt mean end of the game,just a visit to hospital.

[NinjaMirage]

I agree with @TheStylee. There is even naruto universe president for certain skills and jutsu to be associated with a jonin or chunin rank.

Example
the ambidextrous skill (to eliminate the dominant hand is started at chunin and continues to jonin)& the Change in chakra nature skill are just 2 examples.

This suggests that skills when unlocked
Should signal that some one is ready to take a exam for a given rank not a ELO score.
ELO and skills will not be linked in any way so rank by ELO makes any kind of skill related to rank not possible. However if rank is based on skill not ELO and ELO only is used for it's intended perpose to Measure player ability.
Witch is  fraught with its own problems in a Mmorpg style game. Then there is no conflict.

[DarthTyrael]

I agree with @TheStylee. There is even naruto universe president for certain skills and jutsu to be associated with a jonin or chunin rank.

Example
the ambidextrous skill (to eliminate the dominant hand is started at chunin and continues to jonin)& the Change in chakra nature skill are just 2 examples.

2 points:

First - Yes, character skills/levels should determine eligibility for rank-up exams, however passing them would certainly rely on a player's skill.

Lastly - There should be a certain reward system for 'gitting gud' at the game, be that cosmetic items or early access to certain skills that would other wise be hard to obtain/scrolls that increase certain stats making it easier to meet reqs to obtain skills (i.e. Scroll of Secret giving you a random A-rank jutsu in an element/genjutsu with a small chance of S-rank or Scroll of <element/genjutsu/weapon/stat> - gives knowledge/stat experience)

[NinjaMirage]

No @DarthTyrael  I Agee the player still needs to pass the exams to achieve the rank and that is skill based but ELO should not have any effect on eligibility only the skills the character has achieved and maybe a minamum mission complete requirements.

Once your character achieved the next rank there may be village spacific jutsu or additional skills available to master kinda like tree tears in
Other Mmorpg but not level based. This gives a player full control over how fast or slow they want to develop. And dose not limited them to achievement a spacific ELO score because let's face it some people will not have high ELO because they focus on a supporting role in a squad.

[Blazefp]

No @DarthTyrael  I Agee the player still needs to pass the exams to achieve the rank and that is skill based but ELO should not have any effect on eligibility only the skills the character has achieved and maybe a minamum mission complete requirements.

Once your character achieved the next rank there may be village spacific jutsu or additional skills available to master kinda like tree tears in
Other Mmorpg but not level based. This gives a player full control over how fast or slow they want to develop. And dose not limited them to achievement a spacific ELO score because let's face it some people will not have high ELO because they focus on a supporting role in a squad.

Not really, if the ELO system is well adjusted to the game a supporting role can gain as much as a damage dealer. Sure it's based on win/loss ratios but it can get other parameters to the equation such as damage dealt/healed and bonus points such as luring the enemy to a trap, etc. The ELO system was firstly developed for chess, if we use it raw ofc it isn't going to work perfectly on a mmorpg, it needs these adjustments.

[Keyn]

I really like the effort you put on this but I'm not really sure about the levelling but the rest is really cool and I think that the Jonin test should be decided by each village.

[NinjaMirage]

No @DarthTyrael  I Agee the player still needs to pass the exams to achieve the rank and that is skill based but ELO should not have any effect on eligibility only the skills the character has achieved and maybe a minamum mission complete requirements.

Once your character achieved the next rank there may be village spacific jutsu or additional skills available to master kinda like tree tears in
Other Mmorpg but not level based. This gives a player full control over how fast or slow they want to develop. And dose not limited them to achievement a spacific ELO score because let's face it some people will not have high ELO because they focus on a supporting role in a squad.

Not really, if the ELO system is well adjusted to the game a supporting role can gain as much as a damage dealer. Sure it's based on win/loss ratios but it can get other parameters to the equation such as damage dealt/healed and bonus points such as luring the enemy to a trap, etc. The ELO system was firstly developed for chess, if we use it raw ofc it isn't going to work perfectly on a mmorpg, it needs these adjustments.

@Blazefp
ELO is every effective at what it dose. It will predict the outcome of a match extremely accurately.  But if you alter inputs other then a binary win/lose, it starts to fall apart after a few rounds of play. you will get a number if you do it but it will not be as good and may over or under estimate a players skills. It would essentially become useless.

[Blazefp]

@Blazefp
ELO is every effective at what it dose. It will predict the outcome of a match extremely accurately.  But if you alter inputs other then a binary win/lose, it starts to fall apart after a few rounds of play. you will get a number if you do it but it will not be as good and may over or under estimate a players skills. It would essentially become useless.

True but ELO was made specifically for chess, if you use it unaltered for somehting else it'll also be useless. There are no teams or different classes of players with different goals in chess.
I'm not saying these external factors should be primary on the system but we have to take them into account for this game otherwise the system will be just as useless imo

[NinjaMirage]

I agree completely it's one reason I think it's a waste of time to put this kind of scoreing system in this kind of game. I would prefer a jutsu that lets you... sence... the skill of an opponent essentially giving you a win/ lose record and the number of skills they have learned something like 100/115/27.
Then display character age/(or hours played)
With this info you can get an idea not only of the style of play but the skill of that style.

For instance the above example abviusly has nearly a 50% win rate. And is moderately skilled- there  posabley a supporting character but But if the time is low hours Then there likely
More on the combat side
However
Some one with a score of 50/75/50
Would more then likely be a support type character
But if they have long hours it could mean they were focusing on training before becoming more involved with combat.

It give you just enough info to deside if you want to ingage them with out giving away there actual abuility at the game.

this is just one way... there are others too but ELO I think should be readdress. I know it's one of the things that is carved in stone with the devs I just think it's a mistake.

[Blazefp]

Meh I don't think it's a mistake as long as it is properly tweaked and tested. I'm sure Vreg will spend some time with this so I'm not too concerned.

[Charlie]

The obvious answer would be to interpret the game as a 1v1 using the average ELO of each member in a team. When one team is defeated, each player gets the same increase based on the relative ranks of each teams average. Everyone would get the same increase so nobody is gimped. This would only work for simple situations (3v3, 2v2, 1v1), which is something that would rarely happen in game.

[NinjaMirage]

But that's the problem .....the set of  circumstances that you have just described might be the majority of the incounters but there are  .... rouge players..... so the system needs to be adaptive to any kind of battle.
From 1v1 to village scale battle.

And that's something ELO was not designed to do.

[Charlie]

Exactly, that's why I'm suggesting taking that out. Only change ELO rank for official combat in an arena or for rouge ninja something like the Coliseum where there are no other variables than the players themselves. There is no system currently in existence that will be able to rank players in an open world based on their random interactions with other players in that world. 

[NinjaMirage]

Are you saying you want all fighting regulated??? Because I don't think that idea will be widely expected.

And there is no system like that because in a open world Mmorpg there are too many variables that would impact the outcome of a battle.

There are other ways to monitor a players skill at the game other then ELO. Trying to force ELO on a game that it can't handle is a mistake. Not only will it not work it will just waist time.