Regarding Economy, Villages and war

[HermitTheSage]

These are suggestions in no way does this represent the full game at release


Regarding economy, villages and war systems


I don't know which direction SLO is going, but few things are clear there will be a war mechanism, villages and an economy. Obviously there are 11 villages, some with and without Kages and clans to my presumption. Now Wars, Villages and their Economies are all tied together. All Three are Important when having almost everything being run by players and is the key to a player evolving universe.


Economy


So i'll start where it begins. An economy always has its resources, these are for example, Natural resources like gold, iron, wood, stone, livestock(Fish, Boars, chickens, so on). Obviously these should be found in areas that you can find them like mines with NPCs doing the heavy work, ideally places where it's also permitted.


These resources are taken to the village and go through two steps, its either stocked for future use or trade or it can be taken to a workshop where it’s manufactured into a product for example armor, food, building materials.


Regarding gold, i don't know if gold will be in the game or even resources, but in real life money is usually backed up by gold and/or overall amount of resources, now for example imagine you go buy armor at a set price at your village, however, in another village armor it's cheaper, how come? Well, the prices should fluctuate according to the economy. It's all about how strong is your economy, Inflation and deflation.


In simple terms the more resources(the more mines for that particular product) the village has, the less it costs for villagers to buy the product and vice versa the less mines a village has the more it cost(supply and demand), however, the gold the village has will give a small decrease in the price, deflation of the currency(you’d be able to buy more for less) and also vice versa inflation. This makes income for the village by players looking for the cheapest price for the armor they want. This is called a competitive market.


 Let's say you the village is allied with another village and have been through a rough time and the kage or the council or whoever is charge of the village decide to send gold(or resources) to help the village out. What could happen is an NPC with a caravan of resources can make its way to the village and a team of shinobis are assigned with guarding it, thus creating missions. Also normal npc trade carriages between other villages, for example if a village decide to buy more of a specific type of resource because they’re short of it, This allows room for an ambushes by third parties like rogue ninjas and villages at war which could be informed by spies about the delivery, this provides a way of income for rogue ninjas and spoils of war by warring villages.




Villages


Village Infrastructure is important. Having the right buildings providing essentials services is key to a successful village, thus, successful economy. In my opinion, a large amount if not all should be managed by the ruling party, This should follow the structure of council advises the kage and kage decides on final decision. There should be an option on the wall on the kage with budgets that are adjustable, for example, it says the amount of a particular resource being gained per day, there should be an adjustable slide bar where you decide how much to stock and along with other budgets. Im saying it should be on the wall because so that everyone could see and know hes not doing something shady + the only people who should be able to see it is the kage and council


Regarding buildings, a village should be able to build new buildings that offers services, like food, academies, armor shops(maybe different armor shops that offer different armor strength), there are many building to think of but this what will make every city different and how much profit it draws into the village. Another thing that seems like a cool idea is upgrading these building and services with the resources the village owns, Upgrade could come in the form of having your armor produced faster or It produces more income for the village, thus increasing mission payment for players.


On Another Note, Buildings should be Treated like Objects, as in they have their own health bars, which means they could  be destroyed and once destroyed they could be repaired, however you can not destroy your own village, it needs to be someone from another village during times of war. Im also not saying that all building should be destroyed i mean the ones with services, this would allow the attacking party to cripple the economy of the village being attacked.


War Motives and mechanism


Now people don't attack for no reason, the only reasons for war i think is, either assassination of a kage, someone people care about or for more resources(resource disputes). Now there are a few ways to go about warring, destroying the village, mess with their economy or/and taking over their resources to produce more income for village.


Simple lets say two villages are warring, they could attack village trade caravans and impact their economy, attack the village destroy and plunder some cash or try to take over enemy resource location .


In order to discuss taking over resources, we must know where the resources are. It could be two places either within the village boundaries or scattered around the map between villages.


If they’re located within the village boundaries, then a hostile village can destroy the other village and rule over it and send resources from the mine to their village. This leaves room for rebellions, which could be interesting. Or ruling other nation won't be allowed, thus, making taking of resources impossible but insures that each village has a specific type of resources that they could trade


If The Resources are scattered around the map between villages, which is nice. There are two possible ways of taking that resource away from another village depending on how it's done.
The first could be by attacking the location of the resource and adding your own npc for the village maybe by some seal or something, which makes it a bit simple but the resource will be going back and forwards because i doubt people will be protecting it most of the time.


Or


By having flags at the resource locations, once a flag has been taken to the village, the resource for that flag will belong and start generating for that village. So let's say a village has 5 flags that means they’ve got 5 resource locations(mines,livestock,etc..) and let say the flags get stored at kage office(because it should be the most secure place), which means if the enemy want those resources they need to conduct a full on attack on the village so they can take the flag from the kage office, however this means once a village is destroyed they might take all the resources.




Tell me what y’all think. I gathered these aspects from military/city/resource/economic based games and Economics.

[DrSuhi]

I like your idea, but maybe resources should be the deciding factor in how good a product is not the level of a building. I think the quality of a resource should match the landscape and climate of a certain area.
I do have something to add on how businesses should be managed. Thinking about how the game on it's full release might function, there will be lots of noobs, but the exceptional shinobi who manage to accumulate lots of wealth might start their own business. For example Mars gets enough money to start his own money to start his ramen shop, and the village might want to get a little tax money from the poor guy. This would add an economic aspect to the kage elections since if they charge too much they get displeased voters and taxing them too little might be bad for the village since it gets no income to pay their shinobi.
I love the idea of caravans transporting resources from one village to another and the caravan being seized by a rival village or a rouge group. It gives a lot of meaning to bodyguard type missions besides just the kages getting protection.
Good job, it's a lot to think about

[Diamond Lee]

Nice ideas, +rep.

Spoiler: show

tl;dr

[HermitTheSage]

Drsuhi, i like the idea of tax i forgot to mention it, but that only applies if the players are able to set up there own company which would be a great idea for mars ramen also buying goods for cheap and selling at other villages also a good idea, regarding the building i mean like having services that upgrades you armor to a certain level for say.

 i didn't quite understand what you meant by

I like your idea, but maybe resources should be the deciding factor in how good a product is not the level of a building. I think the quality of a resource should match the landscape and climate of a certain area.

because it will always converted at the end, its really the quality of the manufacturer. at the end of the day all resource quality the same, or do you mean something different?



Thnx diamond

[NinjaMirage]

So in regards to the economy idea... I think this a novel approach... but resorses need to be usable...i.e. Craftable by players...this is so players have the option of contributing to a village with the resorses they farm, or (mostly for rogue players) they can be self sufficient outside the village.

If you contribute to the village you may be able to receive a bump in pay for missions

If you train your crafting skills making items and weapons, foods, poisons, etc,could be sold or used to/by players adding item to the world of SLO also stimulating the economy.

[mamita]

I like these ideas. This is definitely the sort of thing we'll need for the final game.
I also like Cmsurfer's idea...Just in case I ever have to go rogue xD

[DrSuhi]

i didn't quite understand what you meant by

I like your idea, but maybe resources should be the deciding factor in how good a product is not the level of a building. I think the quality of a resource should match the landscape and climate of a certain area.

because it will always converted at the end, its really the quality of the manufacturer. at the end of the day all resource quality the same, or do you mean something different?

Sorry about that, I was tipsy when I was writing this. Reading it now, I don't see any sense in it either XD

[HermitTheSage]

By having flags at the resource locations, once a flag has been taken to the village, the resource for that flag will belong and start generating for that village. So let's say a village has 5 flags that means they’ve got 5 resource locations(mines,livestock,etc..) and let say the flags get stored at kage office(because it should be the most secure place), which means if the enemy want those resources they need to conduct a full on attack on the village so they can take the flag from the kage office, however this means once a village is destroyed they might take all the resources.

After thinking about it instead of flags, Big Scrolls like the one Naruto got tricked into stealing would be better, like these (This is not the scroll he stole)

[America]

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. You are inclined towards a more strategic gameplay tailored to the Kage; what isn't accounted for is the player base. Why should NPCs be the ones gathering all of the resources? Why should villages just get resources from NPCs working the mines, just for being a village? This all really depends on how much realism Vreg would put into the game.

I believe if a village wants materials, its members should go collect the resources. The ruling party; e.g. the kage, would be able to tax them based on their gathered possessions. That follows the basic social contract of societies today, the ruling party maintains a fair society as long as the governed provide something in return. (taxes) This also leaves the option to just not gather resources. If a player wants to simply play as a shinobi, he can do so. He could earn money from missions, which he could spend on the resources gathered by those willing to gather.

-But America, why would anyone choose to gather resources over being a shinobi?

I'm glad you asked; this follows the basic concept of supply and demand. If a hundred shinobi all need some new armor, but only a few are willing to gather the materials required to make said armor, the demand goes up, and with it the price. If nobody is willing, the price will eventually get so ludicrous that someone would be stupid to not take the opportunity to sell a piece of armor at whatever outrageous price people are then willing to pay.

Gathering wouldn't need to be a full time job, either. I would say it should be a little more difficult and time-consuming than something like World of Warcraft's professions, however, it wouldn't have to be a limiting duty in the sense of obstructing your shinobi gameplay.

Another point I'd like to make is that of the caravan - this isn't a strategy game. You don't click "Send Caravan" and some NPCs run out of your village walls to run a caravan to the other village. You would give the money to a real person, and say deliver it to the other village's Kage. Vreg has said that the use of NPCs would be limited. I don't see why any Kage would put such a momentous responsibility on an NPC that has a good chance of being mugged by rogues, or why Vreg would even implement such an NPC.

If a slider should be implemented anywhere, it should be for taxation. The village shouldn't actively have a storehouse of resources readily available for ?? reason, but rather a treasury to spend money where it is needed. The village itself isn't a company, it doesn't set up shops or mine resources for itself. Like in the real world, the government would have contractors to provide goods that it may need for whatever reasons on demand. Anyway, I am of the idea that Kage should be able to adjust taxation to a certain degree. I don't think the game should allow something as ridiculous as more than 25% taxation, which could provoke coups even at that level. Anything more is simply trolling and immature behavior by the Kage.

For internal government, I am inclined to believe the Kage would be the only elected position. From there out, the Kage would be able to appoint advisers as he sees fit; these people may have real control over the inner mechanisms of the village, or could just be a true adviser. Vreg has mentioned nothing about other government offices, so in reality, the Kage is a autocrat free to do as he pleases, so long as he can control his populace.

Also, on war: I feel as if constant war will be inevitable. People on the internet are assholes, and there will always be a certain few who are dead-set on fucking shit up. They will kill as they please, because its just a game to them. A Kage won't be able to control his populace 100%, and those few renegades who still associate with a village with no doubt end up killing people from other villages. The Kage of the targeted village in this situation is a coward if he doesn't respond to the death of his citizens. I just don't know how peace can be attained without those few fuckers messing it up. People aren't united for a single cause in a video game like they are in real life; they have little to lose.

A single, defined war effort will probably won't exist, like in every MMO. Players of opposing factions just kill each other when they cross paths. There won't be gatherings of armies to conduct pitched battles at certain locations. People will go about their business, killing an enemy if they happen to see one. I wish it was like I described, but good computers probably couldn't handle more than 32 v 32.

[NinjaMirage]

You know the feudal system for each villages regan my be a good compromise here.
Most of what American said is dead right!!

Except maybe a elected position could be lord of the land. Or this position could be appointed by the Kage to one of his advisers. The lord would be responsible for the economic stability of the land making sure that the resources your village needs don't become too over priced by highering ninja to get and make the the items that are in demand and by building storage for highly used items like kuni and weapon materials...thus making the price of said items cheaper for that village to make.

This also gives rouges targets to raid and more missions for ninja. To defend storehouse.

I think I disagree with America on the war topic.
Peaceful times can be achieved even with unruly villages memebers. This is what the Rogue ninja system is for.

If a village ninja takes it on himself to go out and kill other village members and is stupid enough to leave evidence that it was a ninja from his village. The Kage would have little choice but to declare the player a Rogue. Or go to war.

As for wars.

They should be declared events.
Proof must be provided to a npc that the hidden hill attacked and killed a hidden forest ninja. Proof consists 2 or more of the following:
2 or more eye witness,
 complete ID Card,
village/clan specific poisons,(furthing black market items and ambu missions)
,or village spacific weapons.

Once proof has bin provided a kill zone location close to or in the offending village will be selected. A messenger bird will then be sent to the offending village. If the Kage dose not send a declaration of surrender and declare the offending player Rogue then the kill zone will be achieved and any death in that kill zone cannot be used for evadence to declare war for a set time period. Say 48 hours. In that time any resorses or village jutsu within the kill zone can be looted by anyone.(this is to keep the players of the village from simply logging out and opting not to fight). The offending player must stay in the kill zone for that time If A ID card was provided.

If the offending village surrendered then financial compensation will be aworded to the victor say 30 to 40% of the villages net worth. Meaning market value of the yearly mission income, and current resources on hand. Jutsu should only be able to be stolen not reworded in a surrender. This sum could be based on the strength of the evidence against the offending village.

With these peramiters there is  Financial reasons to declare war/and keep peace.

There are ways to force war but not make it so easy that players won't be able to play the PK'rs to there hearts content.(they had better be good or be prepared to go Rogue)

Edit:as as a side note cards in the bingo book from Rogue players cannot be used as evidence for war.

On resorses

They should be hard to come by and spasific to a certain reagen and located in a kill zone.

If a ninja is left alive in a claimed resources zone and reports the theft of resorses this can be proof enough for war on its own.

This is so it makes more sence to hire ninja from another village to gather resorses for your village then it dose to go to war for them. (At least to start)

[Kokeshen]

When it comes to the economy I think SLO needs to get real creative. I agree with America and Hermit on certain aspects. Mainly tax and the need for actual players to farm for resources. And Ninja definitely has the same idea for Kage responsibilities as I do.

 Now I know that in the FAQ it was said that the devs want to include merchants but I feel as though there needs to be more dedicated career paths other than village shinobi that players can choose, maybe based on their villages resources.

For instance, If Blacksmithing were a career path perhaps there is a specific Chakra nature you must have to even think about being a blacksmith. ie. Fire nature (To heat the metal etc..)

Now I think that if a player chooses to be a blacksmith then they should get a secondary jutsu tree that includes Jutsu's they need to create or farm (In this case mine/smelt/smith). I think it would be cool if these jutsu's could be used in combat as well, but their strength in combat should be relative to the attribute it requires the player to exercise. For example lets just say strength training would increase blacksmithing jutsu's effectiveness in both combat and their profession.

Although a player could be both a Shinobi who works for their village and a blacksmith (Or whatever career they choose) what i mentioned before would make it hard for them to be really good at both. Meaning some players may choose to be successful at their profession instead of being a village shinobi (and Vice Versa).

This is where it could get really interesting 😄. What if Every village had 1 resource their environment produced. For example only in The Village Hidden by Metal is there a mine for iron. YES, this would mean that The Village Hidden by Metal has a monopoly on iron but that would be the only resource they have. SO it would be imperitve for their Kage to trade with other villages for lets say.... Wood because blacksmiths need more than just iron to make weapons.

This would also mean that if you were a blacksmith your Mecca would be The Village Hidden by Metal (because prices for metal will be cheapest or free if you choose to mine it yourself) but you could be a blacksmith anywhere as long as your Kage has trade set up with the villages that have those resources.

This system would create jobs for the Kage managing trade and give recurrent escort missions for their shinobi. It could also lead to merchant jobs for player shinobi. Lets say players buy raw ore from The Village Hidden by Metal for cheap and bring it to The Village Hidden by Dust and sell it for much higher than they paid. If a player did this they would also probably hire more Shinobi to assure that they get there safely.

Successful Blacksmiths could also ship their high end items to other villages for exuberant prices adding more escort missions to the village (But the player manages the mission themselves) or maybe they sell it to the Kage of Their Village for less than they would make if they managed it them self. The Kage could then sell it in his village's store or trade the weapons to another village. Either way more jobs for Village Shinobi.

You see where I'm going here, this basically gives room for players to get creative, have an economy that works (Tho im not sure if it actually would the way i described, the devs would surely tweak it so it does.) and gives Kage's reasons not to go to war.

Now this could only work if money actually meant something in the game. What I mean is there needs to be things that players can buy for a lot of money that actually feel satisfying to get. First thing that comes to mind are expensive weapons for players to drop a dime on, but I think there needs to be a ton more. Basically enough things to buy that would create a class system where rich players would be seen a mile a way (Because of their flashy Stuff) so as to require the hiring of body guards.

[NinjaMirage]

When it comes to the economy I think SLO needs to get real creative. I agree with America and Hermit on certain aspects. Mainly tax and the need for actual players to farm for resources. And Ninja definitely has the same idea for Kage responsibilities as I do.

 Now I know that in the FAQ it was said that the devs want to include merchants but I feel as though there needs to be more dedicated career paths other than village shinobi that players can choose, maybe based on their villages resources.

For instance, If Blacksmithing were a career path perhaps there is a specific Chakra nature you must have to even think about being a blacksmith. ie. Fire nature (To heat the metal etc..)

Now I think that if a player chooses to be a blacksmith then they should get a secondary jutsu tree that includes Jutsu's they need to create or farm (In this case mine/smelt/smith). I think it would be cool if these jutsu's could be used in combat as well, but their strength in combat should be relative to the attribute it requires the player to exercise. For example lets just say strength training would increase blacksmithing jutsu's effectiveness in both combat and their profession.

Although a player could be both a Shinobi who works for their village and a blacksmith (Or whatever career they choose) what i mentioned before would make it hard for them to be really good at both. Meaning some players may choose to be successful at their profession instead of being a village shinobi (and Vice Versa).

This is where it could get really interesting 😄. What if Every village had 1 resource their environment produced. For example only in The Village Hidden by Metal is there a mine for iron. YES, this would mean that The Village Hidden by Metal has a monopoly on iron but that would be the only resource they have. SO it would be imperitve for their Kage to trade with other villages for lets say.... Wood because blacksmiths need more than just iron to make weapons.

This would also mean that if you were a blacksmith your Mecca would be The Village Hidden by Metal (because prices for metal will be cheapest or free if you choose to mine it yourself) but you could be a blacksmith anywhere as long as your Kage has trade set up with the villages that have those resources.

This system would create jobs for the Kage managing trade and give recurrent escort missions for their shinobi. It could also lead to merchant jobs for player shinobi. Lets say players buy raw ore from The Village Hidden by Metal for cheap and bring it to The Village Hidden by Dust and sell it for much higher than they paid. If a player did this they would also probably hire more Shinobi to assure that they get there safely.

Successful Blacksmiths could also ship their high end items to other villages for exuberant prices adding more escort missions to the village (But the player manages the mission themselves) or maybe they sell it to the Kage of Their Village for less than they would make if they managed it them self. The Kage could then sell it in his village's store or trade the weapons to another village. Either way more jobs for Village Shinobi.

You see where I'm going here, this basically gives room for players to get creative, have an economy that works (Tho im not sure if it actually would the way i described, the devs would surely tweak it so it does.) and gives Kage's reasons not to go to war.

Now this could only work if money actually meant something in the game. What I mean is there needs to be things that players can buy for a lot of money that actually feel satisfying to get. First thing that comes to mind are expensive weapons for players to drop a dime on, but I think there needs to be a ton more. Basically enough things to buy that would create a class system where rich players would be seen a mile a way (Because of their flashy Stuff) so as to require the hiring of body guards.

There are 3 major problems with this idea though.

1 this supposes that there is a resorses pool of 12 item!! 1 for each village.
I think there should be a much larger item pool then that.

2 on monopolys on items.

While I Agee some rare items might only be found in spacific regions. For the sake of a  free market and not endless wars. At least 2 villages need to have territory where you can find the same resorses.

This will require kage to be diplomatic with at least 1 village but still have the option of trying to get the resources behind the back of a village that has the resources they need.

3 is the chakra nature

It dose make sence to have a blacksmith with fire nature but it leaves the problem of villages with out fire natures having to by weapons from other villages. And in this kind of game weapons are power.

Those villages will basicly have no use for Kenjutsu, a major damage tree!!

They could still train in it but if there villages was ever boycotted by the villages with blacksmiths there basicly screwed. So all carriers need to be able to be available to all.

[mamita]

 

It dose make sence to have a blacksmith with fire nature but it leaves the problem of villages with out fire natures having to by weapons from other villages.

Except that's not how chakra natures will work, to my understanding.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but each village's listed natures are simply the natures
required to obtain the combined chakra nature.
Any ninja is not limited to the chakra natures of their villages.
I.E, a Volcano shinobi is not limited to picking either Fire or Earth when he starts-
He could pick from any of the five natures.
His second (Random) nature is not limited by that either.
@Vreg

[StriderOtaku]

When it comes to the economy I think SLO needs to get real creative. I agree with America and Hermit on certain aspects. Mainly tax and the need for actual players to farm for resources. And Ninja definitely has the same idea for Kage responsibilities as I do.

 Now I know that in the FAQ it was said that the devs want to include merchants but I feel as though there needs to be more dedicated career paths other than village shinobi that players can choose, maybe based on their villages resources.

For instance, If Blacksmithing were a career path perhaps there is a specific Chakra nature you must have to even think about being a blacksmith. ie. Fire nature (To heat the metal etc..)

Now I think that if a player chooses to be a blacksmith then they should get a secondary jutsu tree that includes Jutsu's they need to create or farm (In this case mine/smelt/smith). I think it would be cool if these jutsu's could be used in combat as well, but their strength in combat should be relative to the attribute it requires the player to exercise. For example lets just say strength training would increase blacksmithing jutsu's effectiveness in both combat and their profession.

Although a player could be both a Shinobi who works for their village and a blacksmith (Or whatever career they choose) what i mentioned before would make it hard for them to be really good at both. Meaning some players may choose to be successful at their profession instead of being a village shinobi (and Vice Versa).

This is where it could get really interesting 😄. What if Every village had 1 resource their environment produced. For example only in The Village Hidden by Metal is there a mine for iron. YES, this would mean that The Village Hidden by Metal has a monopoly on iron but that would be the only resource they have. SO it would be imperitve for their Kage to trade with other villages for lets say.... Wood because blacksmiths need more than just iron to make weapons.

This would also mean that if you were a blacksmith your Mecca would be The Village Hidden by Metal (because prices for metal will be cheapest or free if you choose to mine it yourself) but you could be a blacksmith anywhere as long as your Kage has trade set up with the villages that have those resources.

This system would create jobs for the Kage managing trade and give recurrent escort missions for their shinobi. It could also lead to merchant jobs for player shinobi. Lets say players buy raw ore from The Village Hidden by Metal for cheap and bring it to The Village Hidden by Dust and sell it for much higher than they paid. If a player did this they would also probably hire more Shinobi to assure that they get there safely.

Successful Blacksmiths could also ship their high end items to other villages for exuberant prices adding more escort missions to the village (But the player manages the mission themselves) or maybe they sell it to the Kage of Their Village for less than they would make if they managed it them self. The Kage could then sell it in his village's store or trade the weapons to another village. Either way more jobs for Village Shinobi.

You see where I'm going here, this basically gives room for players to get creative, have an economy that works (Tho im not sure if it actually would the way i described, the devs would surely tweak it so it does.) and gives Kage's reasons not to go to war.

Now this could only work if money actually meant something in the game. What I mean is there needs to be things that players can buy for a lot of money that actually feel satisfying to get. First thing that comes to mind are expensive weapons for players to drop a dime on, but I think there needs to be a ton more. Basically enough things to buy that would create a class system where rich players would be seen a mile a way (Because of their flashy Stuff) so as to require the hiring of body guards.

I swear, reading your idea gave me goosebumps and i got excited about this game for the first time in a while. While a few things cmsurfer pointed out might need to be adjusted (save for the natures thing, it's not really a problem since I believe all natures can exist in all villages), your idea is pretty solid.
And I especially agree with an economic system where money has to mean money. There should be a lot of value behind currency and a class system can then exist so that we can have the "rich" and the "not so rich". Imo, the realism this would bring to the game would be extreme.

[NinjaMirage]

@mamita

It dose make sence to have a blacksmith with fire nature but it leaves the problem of villages with out fire natures having to by weapons from other villages.

Except that's not how chakra natures will work, to my understanding.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but each village's listed natures are simply the natures
required to obtain the combined chakra nature.
Any ninja is not limited to the chakra natures of their villages.
I.E, a Volcano shinobi is not limited to picking either Fire or Earth when he starts-
He could pick from any of the five natures.
His second (Random) nature is not limited by that either.
@Vreg

Mamita your chakra natures are desided at character creation by the village you choose.
You only have a 25% chance of getting a fire
Nature if you live in the hidden forest
Check out the village page here!!

https://www.shinobilifeonline.com/index.php/topic,732.0.html

That is not good odds to make carriers based on chakra!! At least in my opinion. The games economy can not be left up to chance like that.
It has to be fixed so that there is some order to the game.