Food and other necessities

[SpeakingRain]

My suggestion is that we have some semblance of a basic needs systems, such as food/water/sleep (though obviously Shinobi can can last longer without these than a typical human). Also perhaps diseases and weather effects (like being out in a blizzard will kill you if you don't seek shelter).

The reasoning behind it is it would demand some players to dedicate themselves to certain services, such as food or medicine production/procurement, or being inn keepers, or instead of everyone being the typical Shinobi wandering around.

Anyone who played the Frostfall and Food/Hunger mods on Skyrim would know how much immersive (and admittedly difficult) it is when food/water/shelter actually have a meaning behind them rather than just window dressing. ^^

[NinjaMirage]

I like the way you think and food and sleep need to be in because they play key roles in chakra and stamina.

I like the idea of whether effects and disease.

Disease could play a part in the out come of many things in the game, however weather should only slowly effect the player based on his stamina or stats.. After all some one that is tired would be more suseptable to a blizzard then some one that is well rested and at full strangth.

[SpeakingRain]

however weather should only slowly effect the player based on his stamina or stats.. After all some one that is tired would be more suseptable to a blizzard then some one that is well rested and at full strangth.

Yeah, I agree. Eating hot food, like ramen, can also help you keep warm. Also, people from the Hidden Inferno would have a lot less resistance to the freezing temperatures of a blizzard than someone from the Hidden Snow. And Hidden Snow people will definitely be negatively impacted when going somewhere as hot as the Hidden Inferno.

 Having such limitations will force Kage and military strategists think much more tactically rather than "send all Shinobi there and kill."

[Rapho]

Disease could play a part in the out come of many things in the game, however weather should only slowly effect the player based on his stamina or stats.. After all some one that is tired would be more suseptable to a blizzard then some one that is well rested and at full strangth.

That could give many players an advantage in combat ('stalking' someone until they catch a disease and attacking them)

I like this idea and I hope we'll get something like this in the final game. Not only because it'll make the game feel more immersive but also because I can imagine this for roleplaying. I don't how you would implement sleep in a MMORPG though, but that's just my opinion.

[SpeakingRain]

Disease could play a part in the out come of many things in the game, however weather should only slowly effect the player based on his stamina or stats.. After all some one that is tired would be more suseptable to a blizzard then some one that is well rested and at full strangth.

That could give many players an advantage in combat ('stalking' someone until they catch a disease and attacking them)

I like this idea and I hope we'll get something like this in the final game. Not only because it'll make the game feel more immersive but also because I can imagine this for roleplaying. I don't how you would implement sleep in a MMORPG though, but that's just my opinion.

Yeah, I agree on the sleep bit. Maybe when you go offline, you'd get a bonus whne setting up a camp/going to a inn instead of just logging off in the middle of the woods?

[Konohuro]

I like this suggestion.
I've thought in the past that a basic survive system for SLO could be very entertaining.
Maybe carrying a tent and being able to cut down trees, chop them and set a fire may be available too. Everything would be more interesting.

[Mars]

Maybe there will be a hunger and hydration thing where you can die from starvation and hunger, causing a need for shops?

Already planned.

Hunger and thirst will be implemented, though a temperature bar won't be added. Vreg has stated this as he wants it to be an MMORPG not a survival game so there wont be that many things you'll need to keep under control.

[NinjaMirage]

Disease could play a part in the out come of many things in the game, however weather should only slowly effect the player based on his stamina or stats.. After all some one that is tired would be more suseptable to a blizzard then some one that is well rested and at full strangth.

That could give many players an advantage in combat ('stalking' someone until they catch a disease and attacking them)

I like this idea and I hope we'll get something like this in the final game. Not only because it'll make the game feel more immersive but also because I can imagine this for roleplaying. I don't how you would implement sleep in a MMORPG though, but that's just my opinion.

Sleep is a well asstablished RPG Machanic and in most cases heals. Also is usually a fast Machanic such as a fade to black and you walk up.

Yeah, I agree on the sleep bit. Maybe when you go offline, you'd get a bonus whne setting up a camp/going to a inn instead of just logging off in the middle of the woods?

You don't need to go to a inn to sleep you can sleep anywhere. And I would say you don't need to log off to sleep. However I think logging off should automaticly put you to sleep.

doing this in a middle of a fight is obviously a bad idea.

And there should be a min. Time for sleep like 5 min. To restore your chakra.
So you don't have people logging off and on Again. Whether your in game or you log off you should need to sleep 5 min befor you regain all your chakra reserves.

If you need to log off in a hurry because real life is calling. I suggest a escape Jutsu with a Realy long cool down like 24 hours- that makes you invisible to other players while you sleep.

[SpeakingRain]

Good to know that the food/water thing is planned. ^^
As for my camp/inn idea; of course you can sleep anywhere, I just meant to suggest you get a bonus since you were falling asleep in a "safe"  area. I definitely don't want it to be a MMORPG that forces you to stay offline for eight hours a day just so your character can "sleep."

And I still like the temperature bar thing. Maybe effects can be negligible enough that can be ignored, but you still get bonuses for your character for fighting in an environment the acclimatized to.

[DarthTyrael]

I think an temperature bar would be nice in one way, though with how fast the shinobi life is and what you have to pay attention to, I think it'll be largely ignored.

However there are other ways to implement climates to advantage/disadvantage.

For example hidden volcano/inferno/dust have a much warmer climate than the other villages. If stamina is introduced, it could be done so that stamina consumption is increased (if not stamina, then chakra). For Snow villages and other colder climates, it could be done such that stamina (or chakra) recovers more slowly.

[Dragon6624]

Agreement:

Spoiler: show

The acclimation idea sounds pretty interesting, and I'm in agreement with you all on it working well as a reason for *some* shinobi --at the very least-- to stick to the motherland rather than head on out into foreign soil; Additionally, it could also add an interesting weight of importance to medical-nin/chemists(...?) on the march, as their inclusion to any team would practically render them the "Heart&Soul" of the troop.

...although, that does make me fear for the brave souls that actually take up that position -- can you imagine the kind of multiplied flak healers will take now? Eesh, people are assholes...

Disagreement:

Spoiler: show

But aside from that much, it still seems like adding in personal necessities to a character will always end up with the game implementing them walking the line of the survival-genre. Even if it's just food and water, it's still food and water, i.e:
"God damn it! ...My character from We Happy Few is hungry again."

--That's not to say survival aspects are entirely bad -- in contrast, they can add to certain contexts, provided they are still balanced to the core tenants of the game. As an example, Minecraft's addition added a level of tension without compromising the general freedom of the player or their will to create. The above stated We Happy Few, however, feels more like it makes the game just a bit more nit-picky and cumbersome than it needed to be -- due in part, I feel, to it dragging down the pacing of the game, aka the player's want to discover more of the story. Too many games --it seems-- follow this trend by making such hand-holding a necessity, thereby anchoring certain sections of the experience when all the player wants to do is progress.

Compromise:

Spoiler: show

In SLO's case, instead of saying "These conditions NEED to be met by the player", why not try "There should be an incentive for the player to meet these conditions". If you believe food and drink are important for the player's chakra, give some small boosts/buffs for keeping your player 'healthy' -- just enough to keep the min-maxers and the realists happy, but without making it a requirement by comparison. The incentive should be enough for players to want to use it, without having to conform to the systems *all the time*. Eating and drinking *can increase chakra-regeneration to an extent*, but going without won't be treated as a big no-no. Basically, no game has to be a job for the player -- as a side example, consider an interesting idea (not regarding food, but rather progression) from Camelot Unchained: The stats for pretty much everything the player-character did during one day will be revealed to them upon the dawn of the next, along with all of the experience accrued for these respective actions. This no longer means the player will be constantly tracking their experience bar while leveling, but will instead be devoting more time to simply *enjoying the game* -- the game is no longer a job, it's just a game meant to be played and --hopefully-- enjoyed in full. Hopefully you get the idea.

Notice:

Spoiler: show

I'll admit, I don't know *everything* regarding SLO's development and theoretical progression --some of it flies by so fast or so low under the radar that I straight up miss it, though I'd hope to believe I haven't missed the more obvious questions and suggestions-- so if any of my statements here have merely served to make a previously known point stated by one of the staff-members redundant, please excuse my ignorance and inform me of my error. My main reasoning for making this post was simply in response to an apparent sentiment towards character-necessities (not player-character incentives) being set in stone.

...And with that much having been said I'll finish for the night.

[NinjaMirage]

@Dragon6624

To a point your compromise makes sence and the idea bout Experiance is a good one. In fact I suggested using this method of adding exeriance after sleeping in the system I suggested. In minecraft the food bar is  essentially your stamina bar. You can only take so many swings with your tools and walk so far before you need to eat. The same basic principles should be applied to slo. The Majer difference being you have more controle of your skills an how much stamina is consumed doing thing. Some foods should buff an example is "the achamechi clans food pills" gives a major boost to both chakra and stamina. However any "buff " in naruto comes with side effects and so should any buff in slo. Regular food should restore stamina with out side effects. Eating before you go on a mission with full stamina should give you a saturation effect like in minecraft... This way it dose not feel like your constantly draining you stamina even though you Realy always are.

The idea is that Every thing takes stamina even sleep- albeit a small amount. If you go to sleep with a full stamina bar you will wake up with like a 1/2 point missing. You can then eat and get a saturation effect that will last different times bassed on type of food.

The reason everything should take stamina is so Taijutsu can be Realy cool and powerful.
If we minimize the effects of things on stamina we need to  proportionately minamize the damage Taijutsu  and kenjutsu for that matter can cause.

[Dagerth]

Well, the reason I originally suggested this was to to give food/water and other nessecities actual value, which would prompt people to pursue/get rich on other professions rather than be all Shinobi with one or two serious roleplayers.

I mean, Skyrim has the buffs for eating food, but even potions that weren't health/stamina/mana could be safely ignored without much consequence.

That's why I suggest it be a necessity, so that the economy is boosted, players are incentivized to taking other roles, and the fully realized, immersive  Shinobi world can become reality. Also, imagine how much more a Kage or org leader will have to strategize if he needs to keep his troops fed.

As for the for the fear that it'll just become a survival simulator, I would think a Shinobi would last a few days longer than a normal human without water or food. ^^

[Dragon6624]

Eh, my main concern is that an improperly balanced necessities system could end up slowing down the pace of SLO; After all's said and done, SLO is still "Shinobi Life Online", and that means a large portion of the game will be PvP/Training (Although I'm hoping the training is done in such a way as to not render it bland and grind-like, but we'll wait and see on that one) -- to the extent that emphasizing too heavily on RP --which is great, don't get me wrong, MMO*RPGs* that recognize their RP community are awesome-- could end up decreasing the fun of the game. If the system is balanced and cleverly implemented, I'll be fine with it.

If, on the other hand, it compromises the fun of the game, be certain to expect my calling card...although I'm sure by then I wouldn't be the only one knocking at the door.

(Here's to hoping it's well implemented! *Glass clinking*)

[NinjaMirage]

Agreed with the economy points

Disagree with the he limitations of ninja.
Ninja are not superhuman. There body's work the same way a normal humans dose.
They just use the energy in there body more    Efficiently and effectively. However there body still uses the glucose in the body to fuel the matabalisum to make this energy.
Threw boldly training they use less energy in there mussels with more  efficiency i.e. Stamina
And they apply this energy in different ways and manipulate how much energy is made by turning glucose in to energy and where it is used and shape it will take- chakra control/
Change in form.

If they don't have fuel in the body chakra will consume the body making it weeker. Untill no more chakra can be made. And you die. In real life this is called starvation.

So yes you can servive for 80 days with out food. But you can barely  move are even think after 20 days so you might as well be dead if your a ninja. Especially if your using chakra for Jutsu you should need more food then a normal person not less.

@Dragon6624

The nessessity system will not be a hindrance because what you need will be readily available. Eather by gathering what you need your self or buying it from others or NPC's. With Fuinjutsu you can bring food for a hole village with you In one scroll. All a nessessity system will do is make the game more  strategic and immersive.