Skill tree ideas

[NinjaMirage]

this is going to be hard to stay on topic but please try!!
So sence the inception of this game the idea is that you can learn anything you want. Any skill Any jutsu, Any religuse abuilitys, ext, and it's one of the many things that sets SLO apart from other MMOARPG games. However it has also bin stated that to accomplish this you must play for a Realy long time. I think That for the players that want to attempt this, they should have every right. I'm guessing though that some players may want to specialize in certain skills as well. I think this needs to be accomplished in the tree skills of the 5 Majer skill trees.
From what I can tell no ninja in naruto ever mastered more then 2 Majer skills
Examples-
Itachi- master of genjutsu and ninjutsu
Jiraiya- Taijustu and ninjutsu
Zabuza- kenjutsu and ninjutsu
Neji- sensory jutsu and Taijustu
Keba- same
You get the idea.

So for the players that want to master everything, I suggest that they must
1. Train in tear 1 in all trees before moving to tear 2 and so on up the trees.( this will be a long process)
2. Only be able to master 1 skill.
3. Find items hidden around the world that allow them to learn the remaining 4 master level skills

For the players that want to specialize in 2 skills
They must
1. Evenly train in both skills-tear 1 before training in tear 2
2. After tear 2 you can train other skils tear 1-(whatever half way is- if there's 10 tears )5
3. After reaching tear 10 in each skill tree
The same 4 items will push you past the master level of your 2 skills- 2 items needed for each
This is were things like
(Naruto examples not In game)
sage mode- ninjutsu
Tsukuyomi- genjutsu
8 inner gates - Taijustu
Byakugan- sensory
Creation Rebirth- medical
Bukijutsu- use of all weapons including legendary ones.(Think Tenten)

And so its all in how you train your skill trees.
As you will likely get your first teer in the academy, you would need to start this from the very  beginning of the game.

The next thing is separating skills from jutsu
JUTSU HAVE NO PLACE IN SKILL TREES
What do I meen by this?...
Under the Ninjutsu tree
The first thing you learn is chakra control.
(Chakra is necessary to perform all ninjutsu)
But what other skills are needed to perform say
The chidori in game now.
1.Change in Form level 3 or higher maybe?
2. Change in nature level 1 or 2 ( depending on if it's your primary nature)?
3. Chakra control level 5 or higher? Basic won't work will it?
And that's Just to start.
4. How about activation control- the first time naruto used the Rasenshuriken In battle why did it fail? Because naruto could not keep it active for long enough. This was not because he ran out of chakra.. He was just not skilled enough yet with the jutsu to keep it active. Should this be in the tree skill or should it be built in to the jutsu???This is why it's going to be hard to stay on topic with just the tree skills.

 So what skills do we give to each major skill tree??

Ninjutsu and genjutsu both require chakra
Which one gets chakra console??
Or do they all get chakra control??
Or dose chakra control unlock all 5 trees.

[Sanji]

i just red the first half and i am tired lol.
btw who is Juria?
do you mean Jiraiya?lol you should fix it.

[NinjaMirage]

Fixed thanks!!!
You meant tired right??? Not third!!
You should finish it is long but I think it's important to spell out the difference between skills and jutsu's and were they belong in game.

[Whatasnipe]

Maybe a Chakra Control tree governs all Ninjutsu? For example like you said Chidori takes alot of chakra control. Maybe you have the Ninjutsu skill to use chidori, but you can't use it until your Chakra control is sufficient enough, using both trees at once. Maybe your Chidori is unstable or ineffective without the required chakra control level. Just some ideas

[NinjaMirage]

Ok here is how I see the trees looking-kind of I'll make a better one soon. But I think everything should open up with chakra control

chakra control

Unlocks

Ninjutsu Genjutsu Taijustu Sensory Bukijutsu

Then under each of them you have other skills  necessary for use of spacifc jutsu so in Ninjutsu there could be a few branches

ninjutsu
Combat skills                Medical skills
Jutsu activation             First aid
Change in form.             Basic Anatomy
1st nature.                   Advanced anatomy
Chakra power         Advanced chakra control
2nd nature.                      Biochemistry
And so on .....until you unlock
Sence nature energy.      Chakra storage

But I think sensory should be classifieds as support skill tree

So chidori would require everything up to chakra power if lightning was your 1st nature and posable speed up from the Taijustu tree seeing as how it's a jab requiring speed.

So basic jutsu should only require 1-2
skills
Novice 3-4
Intermediate 5-6
Expert 7-8
Master 9-10.

The jutsu scroll will list the required skills in them... So obtain a jutsu scroll is useless Inless you have the skills to learn it.

[Manuster]

Personally, I do not think it should ever be possible to master 5 skills. 2 skills per person makes teamwork an important factor and if anyone person can reach 5, everyone will aim for 5.

Besides that, I like your ideas, they are well thought out but would require each jutsu to have a set of additional requirements. Vreg would also have to implement how these skills increase over time, certain jutsu, actions and even clothing might improve certain skills over time. As well as the rate of said increase.

Tbh I'll just @Vreg

[DarthTyrael]

JUTSU HAVE NO PLACE IN SKILL TREES

I agree. I think learning jutsu's through scrolls / others is a good way. Though, I'm open for a skill tree item being a pre-requisite for a jutsu of sorts.

Mastery, however, is another story. (continuing on @Manuster 's post about mastery:)

About the chidori control...
No technique is mastered without practice. Your chance of successfully and efficiently performing a technique should be determined by a number of things:

I. Chakra control and number of successive uses should determine the success of efficiency (read: how much you lose chakra whether successful or unsuccessful)(of course not being successful = bigger chakra loss).
II. Intelligence and number of successive uses should determine the success rate of the jutsu (read: Mastery).

Again, that's my opinion.

[NinjaMirage]

@Manuster @DarthTyrael I see what your saying but I was thinking of a skill point cap that could be implemented  you can Master all the skills in the game and use all the jutsu. In the game but only at bass level if you focus on only 2 trees
You can put more then double the points in each. This would obviously meen you are more skilled in this then some one that knows everything. There for it could as much as double the power of the jutsu someone that only has one point in it would have.
Also there was talk of a Jutsu count that keeps  track of how much you use that jutsu. This could be applied As a persentige of   Efficiency with that Justu. I.E. You used the jutsu 50 times so it only works half the time. 50%

[DarthTyrael]

I see what you mean, let me continue on your thought process.

For example: Ninjutsu Tree

One sub-tree can excel in increased efficiency while another can excel in increased casting speed and/or cooldown decrease.

Elemental specific Tree:

Fire: Lasting Burn (0/3)
Applies Lasting Burn effect on all flame based jutsus, burning your enemies for 5 (*Nin power %) fire damage over (5/10/15) seconds.
Water: Heavy Water (0/3)
Applies Heavy Water effect on jutsu's with Bind effect (for example water prison) or large scale water jutsu's (large tidal wave), causing 8(* Nin power %) over (3/6/9) seconds
Lightning: Lasting Sting (0/3)
Applies Lasting Sting on all lightning based jutsus, inflicting 5(*Nin power %) lightning damage over (5/10/15) seconds.

Let me know what your thoughts are.

[NinjaMirage]

I see what you mean, let me continue on your thought process.

For example: Ninjutsu Tree

One sub-tree can excel in increased efficiency while another can excel in increased casting speed and/or cooldown decrease.

Elemental specific Tree:

Fire: Lasting Burn (0/3)
Applies Lasting Burn effect on all flame based jutsus, burning your enemies for 5 (*Nin power %) fire damage over (5/10/15) seconds.
Water: Heavy Water (0/3)
Applies Heavy Water effect on jutsu's with Bind effect (for example water prison) or large scale water jutsu's (large tidal wave), causing 8(* Nin power %) over (3/6/9) seconds
Lightning: Lasting Sting (0/3)
Applies Lasting Sting on all lightning based jutsus, inflicting 5(*Nin power %) lightning damage over (5/10/15) seconds.

Let me know what your thoughts are.

If this was implemented under the first change in nature skill that would be amazing... To have this kind of control over the distribution of points in that one  tear is  unprecedented for any mmorpg.

And remember jutsu have there own effects.
Adding effects to a specific nature in the tree to boost it alittle might need alpha test to make sure they don't get overpowered. A small boost to  elemental damage is all that would be required to get the desired effect.

[Manuster]

Holy Shit, that's great.
That would honestly be amazing, the level of individuality in jutsu. 2 people could use the same jutsu and have completely different effects depending on their training.

However there are a few things I'm not clear on. Would the ninjutsu skill tree work like this:

Fire Breath

Damage:1/1000
Chakra consumption:1/1000
Elemental damage:1/1000
Damage:1/1000
Size/Distance:1/1000

These 5 features will directly correlate to the Ninjutsu skill tree? And specific types of training can lead to specific types of increase?
 
Practicing change in chakra control would lead to:


Chakra consumption:50/1000
or?
Distance:50/1000

I feel like I'm mis-interpreting something, but I do have a good grasp as to the general idea. The original plan was that as a jutsu is used, everything about it would improve. But what you're suggesting is that certain things improve with use and others improve via the tree?

What I'm gathering from this is that if a Kage level player were to use a jutsu for the first time, he would excel in it far better than a Chuunin using it for the first time.
The Kage will be able to hold the jutsu for much longer and it will cause more damage.

However, as both of them are using it for the first time, the jutsu will have the same success rate, size/distance, chakra consumption and cooldown.

[NinjaMirage]

What I'm gathering from this is that if a Kage level player were to use a jutsu for the first time, he would excel in it far better than a Chuunin using it for the first time.
The Kage will be able to hold the jutsu for much longer and it will cause more damage.

However, as both of them are using it for the first time, the jutsu will have the same success rate, size/distance, chakra consumption and cooldown.

Yes this the idea. The skill tree is representitive of the skills and knowledge you possess. So  imagine a doll as the ninja with nothing in its skill tree... It can't do shit just sit there.
Give it some bass stats, strength, stamina, intelligence, dexterity, and imagination. Now it can walk around, learn, interact with things,and even dream up new things. Teach it a few skills and give it some basic experience to build up its  spiritual energy.

now give it the abuilitys to control chakra.
https://www.shinobilifeonline.com/index.php?topic=2033.15
Now it can use its physical energy (the cotton it's made of) and its spiritual energies ( the skills and experience it has) to make chakra.yhe more points you put in this the better and more chakra your ninja has to use on the next 5 skills it can learn, each with skills  necessary to perform Justu. Some of these skills like chakra control and change in form are the same from one jutsu to another. So a more experienced player would be able to pick up jutsu quicker then one that is not as experienced. All the points added to the tree also get added to the total spirit energy you have and there for  (depending on your Chakra control) can give you even more chakra to use. jutsu have damage and effets training needed to use them programed in to them. Now they just need the  correlated skills to perform them. Then if you have 2x the points nessessary you do 2x the effects and damage and 1/2 the time to learn them. Simple.

[DarthTyrael]

@Manuster @cmsurfer

Holy Shit, that's great.
That would honestly be amazing, the level of individuality in jutsu. 2 people could use the same jutsu and have completely different effects depending on their training.

That's exactly the idea.

Fire Breath

Damage:1/1000
Chakra consumption:1/1000
Elemental damage:1/1000
Damage:1/1000
Size/Distance:1/1000

These 5 features will directly correlate to the Ninjutsu skill tree? And specific types of training can lead to specific types of increase?
 
Practicing change in chakra control would lead to:


Chakra consumption:50/1000
or?
Distance:50/1000

In my opinion, your first instinct was correct. Investing in chakra control should decrease your chakra consumption across all skills. In your skill tree you can then invest more points in efficiency to decrease that effect even further. This allows for players to have low chakra control over all but still use a certain type of jutsu more efficiently than others.

Think of Rock Lee/Might Guy for example. Terrible ninjutsu/genjutsu users, low chakra control and low chakra pool most likely, they only do physical training and no meditation whatsoever.

However, they can use Taijutsu techniques very VERY efficiently. A character based on these types of characters would have all their points spent in Taijutsu, increasing their damage output, efficiency and decreasing their cooldown/cast speeds for them.

As for your other option, an increase of distance should be another sub-branch in respective elemental tree. For example:

Tier 2:
Flash Fire (0/5)
Increases the distance of channeled fire jutsu's by 12/25/50/75%

Hardened Lungs (0/5)
Increases the distance of ranged fire jutsu's by 5/10/15/20%

This of course is a mere example for Fire elemental skill tree.

[NinjaMirage]

Investing in chakra control should decrease your chakra consumption across all skills. In your skill tree you can then invest more points in efficiency to decrease that effect even further. This allows for players to have low chakra control over all but still use a certain type of jutsu more efficiently than others.

this is built in to the chakra control equation I made for that skill already- in the system I discribed in the other post. You don't need to waist points reducing it further...as it is I think a max level of chakra control is  ridiculous .
Remember that jutsu levels go up and effects like range and acuracy do to. The tree should only effect your abuilitys to perform and  execute those effects. Some my be able to add better elemental  Efficiency but it should be general and apply to any jutsu using That nature. If these are in the tree they would work like a buff to any jutsu of that nature while active and any points put in to it would increase the length and effect of the buff.

The Idea is that it's your skills in the tree not the jutsu's abuilitys. What will make you better at performing this jutsu then someone else.

[Whatasnipe]

Just a quick note on the "only mastering 2" rule we've set up. What if after mastering the second mastering a third is possible, but the XP curve is ridiculously steepened, taking 5 times as long to master as the last. Remember that we have perma death, so if you can even last that long you can do it. Even after mastering every tree by staying alive for an inconceivable amount of, you aren't even unkillable. You can still be outnumbered or outplayed, you just have a lot to show for your experience. Again, Maybe the real mastery is in honing your skills without needing more than 2 trees. Its just an opportunity for there to be the "Madara's" of the world I guess. This isn't something I necessarily agree should be in the game, Again I'm just throwing ideas around