General discussion

[Nova]

I know I'm double posting and all but please don't add this to my last post. The previous post is long and complicated enough as it is.

@Manuster
A double post is still a double post, saying you post twice to not make it 1 long thread, is kinda contradicting because by posting it twice the length is actually longer (2 posts + 2 times your forum profile {Signature etc.})
Would be longer than just 2 comments in one post.
I did edit & remove one.

I know you asked not to, but quite frankly it's still not allowed even if it is 2 well written posts.
Also seeing as you're aware that you might be post whoring (talking about your signature.) that also would seem like a reason why you would do that.

[Reminance]

@Manuster Just edit your previous post if you want to add something to it.

[Manuster]

@SirTroll Thanks

I only have one problem with this... I think this should be a master level jutsu.. because it uses a % of total health and chakra it would use less resources for a gennin to use then for a kaga ranked player. This is both unrealistic and unbalanced. but sirtroll is right this is should be in the forbidden topic.

@cmsurfer It was intentional. If a Genin can obtain this jutsu then he has more than earned the right to use it. And the Jutsu itself is supposed to be unrealistic in the fact that a pebble can be summoned if a Kage level player loses 90% of his health and chakra and a Genin can win a 20v1 at a much lower numerical cost.


If you think about it.


It would be dumb for a Kage to use this

@Manuster
I'm all for giving new players a chance against a higher level player but this seems a little to much... The game is going for realizem... I have no problem with summoning a meteor and if you do all the draw backs sound about right. But I think it would work better as less of a luck of the draw kind of jutsu and more targeted and nerfed damage abit. And as you get better at the jutsu the more power you have behind it. After all it is also going to be a  heavily skill-based game.

I see where you're coming from with this. Your point is valid but I think this comes down to preference. For me, this jutsu is all about luck. The performance of every single jutsu is dependent on the level and skill of the user. I understand this game is all about realism and skill, however both of those would be required in very large quantities for any user to obtain the scroll in the first place.


Vreg also mentioned that the Rank of a player has nothing to do with their skill. In this game you will be able to be Kage level at Genin rank. Just like Naruto was. Are you saying that if such a player obtained the scroll they shouldn't be able to use it unless they rank up? I think they should...

I know I'm double posting and all but please don't add this to my last post. The previous post is long and complicated enough as it is.

@Manuster
A double post is still a double post, saying you post twice to not make it 1 long thread, is kinda contradicting because by posting it twice the length is actually longer (2 posts + 2 times your forum profile {Signature etc.})
Would be longer than just 2 comments in one post.
I did edit & remove one.

I know you asked not to, but quite frankly it's still not allowed even if it is 2 well written posts.
Also seeing as you're aware that you might be post whoring (talking about your signature.) that also would seem like a reason why you would do that.

It wasn't the length I was concerned about but the separation between the two suggestions.


But rules are rules I guess. I'll just use the horizontal rule to get the effect I want.

[Shivraj]

I see where you're coming from with this. Your point is valid but I think this comes down to preference. For me, this jutsu is all about luck. The performance of every single jutsu is dependent on the level and skill of the user. I understand this game is all about realism and skill, however both of those would be required in very large quantities for any user to obtain the scroll in the first place.


Vreg also mentioned that the Rank of a player has nothing to do with their skill. In this game you will be able to be Kage level at Genin rank. Just like Naruto was. Are you saying that if such a player obtained the scroll they

What about making it have a certain health and chakra limit to be castable? If you don't match that criteria, you can either save the scroll for future use, or sell it for HIGH prices. Like, you must have X amount of Hit Points and Y amount of Chakra Points to cast this jutsu.

[NinjaMirage]

Shivraj is right I think the biggest concern i had was that (the way you had it )you would use more chakra the longer you have the jutsu with no benefit to the jutsu. @Manuster  If there was a set amount of chakra regardless of how much chakra you have. I still think a jutsu based on pure luck would not fit with the fell of the game but i guess it is a personal preference thing.

[Shivraj]

Shivraj is right I think the biggest concern i had was that (the way you had it )you would use more chakra the longer you have the jutsu with no benefit to the jutsu. @Manuster  If there was a set amount of chakra regardless of how much chakra you have. I still think a jutsu based on pure luck would not fit with the fell of the game but i guess it is a personal preference thing.

I agree with am ability based on luck not fitting, but there needs to another way to nerf this if not luck.

[NinjaMirage]

Shivraj is right I think the biggest concern i had was that (the way you had it )you would use more chakra the longer you have the jutsu with no benefit to the jutsu. @Manuster  If there was a set amount of chakra regardless of how much chakra you have. I still think a jutsu based on pure luck would not fit with the fell of the game but i guess it is a personal preference thing.

I agree with am ability based on luck not fitting, but there needs to another way to nerf this if not luck.

The only thing i can think is that the size of the Meteor is determined by the chakra level of the caster so
that the more chakra used is proportionate to the size and damage the meteor deals. because it causes health to cast if you survive long enough using this jutsu you deserve to have the massive damage.  but if used this way i suspect only taijutsu users or kenjutsu users would use this... because you would want to drain there chakra so they cant use a substatution

[Shivraj]

The only thing i can think is that the size of the Meteor is determined by the chakra level of the caster so
that the more chakra used is proportionate to the size and damage the meteor deals. because it causes health to cast if you survive long enough using this jutsu you deserve to have the massive damage. 

Yes, maybe have it consume 30% chakra to bring down an ordinary sized rock, 60% to bring down a large meteor, not enough to completely destroy a village, 90% to summon a meteorite big enough to be a threat to a hidden village.

ofc this can be catastrophic to the whole world, but let's not go that in depth.

[NinjaMirage]

The only thing i can think is that the size of the Meteor is determined by the chakra level of the caster so
that the more chakra used is proportionate to the size and damage the meteor deals. because it causes health to cast if you survive long enough using this jutsu you deserve to have the massive damage. 

Yes, maybe have it consume 30% chakra to bring down an ordinary sized rock, 60% to bring down a large meteor, not enough to completely destroy a village, 90% to summon a meteorite big enough to be a threat to a hidden village.

ofc this can be catastrophic to the whole world, but let's not go that in depth.

i was thinking more like a standard 90% cost of chakra as you train chakra the more chakra you get the more you will use the bigger the meteor.

[Manuster]

I see where you're coming from with this. Your point is valid but I think this comes down to preference. For me, this jutsu is all about luck. The performance of every single jutsu is dependent on the level and skill of the user. I understand this game is all about realism and skill, however both of those would be required in very large quantities for any user to obtain the scroll in the first place.


Vreg also mentioned that the Rank of a player has nothing to do with their skill. In this game you will be able to be Kage level at Genin rank. Just like Naruto was. Are you saying that if such a player obtained the scroll they

What about making it have a certain health and chakra limit to be castable? If you don't match that criteria, you can either save the scroll for future use, or sell it for HIGH prices. Like, you must have X amount of Hit Points and Y amount of Chakra Points to cast this jutsu.

Saving for later use, selling for high prices and stealing/getting robbed have always been an option with forbidden jutsu. All the more reason that there doesn't really need to be a restriction on it's use as no newbie will ever get their hands on this jutsu.


The jutsu already has a health and chakra limit; 90%. I explain this in the original post. To assign numerical values would give the user an element of control over it and to be honest, would be starkingly similar to Tengai Shinsei. It would simply be too op. Too predictable. The drawbacks would be pointless because in the hands of a Kage, the few enemies that do survive won't be enough to kill him.


The current system creates tension for both the user and the target. I'll challenge you to find another jutsu like that. 


Even in reality there are things that are irrational and unpredictable. This jutsu is simply another.

(However, I know that cmsurfer is a man of pure and utter reason so I will attempt to justify the randomness of the jutsu.)

The caster senses for and locates a meteorite from outer space. Due to the large distance, they have no knowledge over the size of said meteorite, they can sense the position but literally nothing else about the meteorite.


The caster then teleports it to a location within their field of vision (somewhere on their screen kek).


The huge drawbacks can be justified by the fact that sensing and teleportation of such a distance would cause such a drain on a shinobi's chakra that the only way for them to stay alive while performing this jutsu is to channel most of their health into additional chakra.


The ability to turn health into chakra is a reverse of the common medic type ninjutsu, however it is so complicated to perform that it can only be done by shinobi using the forbidden scroll. (The instructions being so clear that even AS can do it, also containing a hidden genjutsu that makes the user forget the jutsu immediatly after use.)


To perform a technique at such a scale with no training is the cause of the limited health, inability to train and the fact that medical and teleportation jutsu won't work on the caster.


This ability is not exclusive to the jutsu "Satan's Gift" and is likely to appear within other forbidden jutsu. 

[NinjaMirage]

The jutsu already has a health and chakra limit; 90%. I explain this in the original post. To assign numerical values would give the user an element of control over it and to be honest, would be starkingly similar to Tengai Shinsei. It would simply be too op. Too predictable. The drawbacks would be pointless because in the hands of a Kage, the few enemies that do survive won't be enough to kill him.

I think this is where we differ in opinions.  A genene level player under the right circumstances will be able to kill a kaga level player. This is not a exp level based game were someone 10-20 level above you is a red player and impossible to beet  because you can't do enough damage to them because of armor and  weapon limitations. So the  drawbacks are not pointless in the hands of a kaga, the only advantage a kaga has is the amount of resources they have over newer players, and there skills in jutsu newer players are unable to learn. So something that uses this much resources needs to be either targetable and random in size or randomly hit but trainable in size with secondary splash damage.

theres no need to justify how the jutsu works and why it takes HP. I'm fine with every thing you explained about how the jutsu works. The problem is that the jutsu basicly makes you weaker than a gennen with out any way of guaranteeing any benefit from the jutsu. Its kinda pointless at that point, and if used when your not in a party is tantamount to suicide.

[Manuster]

I think this is where we differ in opinions.  A genene level player under the right circumstances will be able to kill a kaga level player. This is not a exp level based game were someone 10-20 level above you is a red player and impossible to beet  because you can't do enough damage to them because of armor and weapon limitations. So the  drawbacks are not pointless in the hands of a kaga, the only advantage a kaga has is the amount of resources they have over newer players, and there skills in jutsu newer players are unable to learn. So something that uses this much resources needs to be either targetable and random in size or randomly hit but trainable in size with secondary splash damage.

Ahhhhhh I get what you're saying. But this jutsu IS targetable, the only thing random is the size.


I don't think I was clear enough in my original description, the caster can select anywhere on their screen to summon the jutsu. The only reason I mentioned that it has to be on their screen is that it shouldn't be possible for the caster to summon long distances or even behind them.

theres no need to justify how the jutsu works and why it takes HP. I'm fine with every thing you explained about how the jutsu works.

Oops...

The problem is that the jutsu basicly makes you weaker than a gennen with out any way of guaranteeing any benefit from the jutsu. Its kinda pointless at that point, and if used when your not in a party is tantamount to suicide.

And yes, that is whole point of the jutsu. It's not supposed to guarantee anything. Getting this jutsu does not mean you can wipe out a village. But it gives you a possibility. It also doesn't mean you will die. But it gives you the possibility. And it's those possibilities that the owner has to haggle with.


This jutsu can be pointless.
That is intentional.

[Nova]

sorry I'm just new and when I didn't get the first one or the second one so i just created another account so when you found out i didn't know what to do so i got worried so can you please forgive me.

@xxJonathanMadnessxx
Noted, first time it's just a verbal warning which I will give you now.
Don't use multiple accounts, (seeing as you already made multiple accounts I suggest that you only use one of those.)
Next time you will receive punishment.

[json243]

Lol multiple accounts. Nova just got his warning cherry popped XD

[Shivraj]

Such random.
Many funnies.

Probably knee, as it's much less likely to cause damage to internal organs.

Your kneecap will never heal, you'll be crippled forever(unless you get a treatment to replace your kneecap with a metal counterpart), plus getting shot in the kneecap is very painful. Also give a would you rather @Manuster