General discussion

[Tameshi Hinode]

But then it would still be possible to get oneshotted by someone.
The only difference would be,that its done by a advanced player,not a noob.
We have to assume that not every battle is fought in a fair duel with friends,thats why i think that any kind of onehit attack,can and will,cause trouble in a mmorpg.
Getting killed from behind with 1 attack just isnt a very,,epic''way to die for a long time player i think.
Sometimes even experience cant protect you from an ambush.
You cant activate the substitution jutsu in front of every corner or tree you come across because someone COULD jump out with a chidori to attack you.
I mean....you can,but i doubt it would be fun to do that for multiple hours.
A ambush is only entertaining for BOTH players,if the victim gets a chance to fight back,after receiving the first blow,otherwise,its only fun for the attacker.
There COULD be one hits,though,if we had different ammounts of health points for each player.
If someone decides to focus in his training only on offensive tactics,he will have a very low ammount of health points.
That player could die from 1 attack.
Or if someone is very new,then he could also die from 1 attack(and in that case,it wouldnt be so dramatic since he is new anyway and didnt really lose something).

[NinjaMirage]

this is why i suggested the defencive cue.
with it active in your cue you don't need to activate it around every corner.
and you're starting to talk about the order of a squad now. a defencive jutsu user i would put out front to absorb any ambush attack from someone that only trains in offence.
it forces strategy and planning for everyone to be on a even playing field as far as hit points are concerned. it also punishes those that go rogue for they will likely not have back up unless they enlist the help of other rogues in a organization. even the akatsuki traveled in 2 man squads. I know if i was kaga i would not send a member of my village in to a killzone alone.
the other thing about one hit kills.
one hit will bring up the  option to kill or leave him.
if you choose to kill them you must still deliver the final blow...
so one hit kill is not truly a one hit kill.
this also gives a medical ninja time to assist and get you out of this situation. and if your medical ninja has stayed out of the fight till now your opponent has no idea what kind of jutsu they use so they cant target the medical ninja first .... they can take a lucky guess .... but that's the risk of any high level  mission. which i think is kinda the fun on any mission you might actually die.

[Tameshi Hinode]

-I was actually NOT talking about squads,i was talking about balancing issues in general.
-Not everyone is serving the kage or any organization.
-Also,its still sort of a one hit kill....it doesnt kill you,but it makes you unable to fight anymore,so after 1 attack,the fight is over.
-You also seem to think that there will always be someone with you when you travel,that everything will be organized in teams and that there will be a medic ninja around at all times...this might be the plan and the best outcome,but the chances that this will happen are not very high.
And some people might want to be on ther own.
If you get attacked by 1 person of the same skill lvl,it should only need 1 person of the same skill lvl to defend against the attacker.
-Additionaly,the attacker might target the medic ninja first and kill him.
The medic ninja could also get attacked as soon as he trys to help his comrade.
Since he is a medic ninja,he wouldnt be THAT great at combat.
-This defensive cue would still require chakra every few seconds(having a substitution jutsu active for multiple minutes would be kinda odd).



There are so many things i would have to adress at the same time,that i simply wont do it.
In one point youre right,though:we have very different expectations.
I played many,many mmorpgs,sandbox mmos,first person mmo,s....perma death,full loot...and i really doubt that any kind of onehit-win would work(with the exception of veteran vs newbie fights).
And to be honest,i dont understand why someone would want that.
Ive lost many items and even a few characters in these types of mmo,s and it can be really annoying.
But losing these things because of 1 attack is even worse,and most people dont want that.
Maybe you didnt try this type of game yet,i dont know.
But multiple months or 1 year,can be a very long time.
After that time,you want your character to die in a epic,and long fight at least,not in under 3 seconds.
Still,feel free to make a thread for these sugestions.

[NinjaMirage]

i guess i don't understand why anyone would willingly just hang out in a killzone by themselves if they were not on a mission... wouldn't there time be better spent training??

[Tameshi Hinode]

Role playing?(note:not everyone might want to roleplay as a ninja.a village also needs a doctor,teacher,smith,inn owner,farmer....)
Exploring?
Traveling?
Beeing a banished criminal?
Housing?
Farming?
Collecting ressources?
The game will be a sandbox or at least have sandbox elements.
In such games you can do pretty much everything.
It wouldnt surprise me if we would even have a few players who never watched naruto but like the game,later.
In a similiar game i played for months,there was no perma death,but you lost everything if you died.
People used to be out in the wilderness to collect ressources for crafting,build ther own house,take care of ther farm,travel from one town to another(that could take hours sometimes),tame animals,hunt(animals and players alike)or just because they wanted to be alone a bit.
People have all kind of reasons.

[NinjaMirage]

there's an easy way around this the sandboxes can be around the villages for the players that just want to rp then there is little risk. now they can submit a request for rare items in killzones as a c rank or higher mission, but shinobi that fight are usually to busy training and doing missions to do much of this stuff. i'm not saying i would not, medical herbs would likely be a main carrier for me, but i know better then to go out there alone... its suicide that's what ninja missions are for.


on a similar note:
has there been much talk on what kind of battle items can be used???
things like stim paks with adrenalin and the like
or medpacs
antidotes
food pills
smoke/poison bombs
poison weapons
paper bombs
wire snares
traps
these are all things people can rp and sandbox search ingredients for.

[Tameshi Hinode]

The word,,sandbox''is more about a certain type of game,not a area.
So you cant just make this area a sandbox,and this area not.
A sandbox game can be described with one word:freedom.
You have the freedom to do what you want,without too many limits because of the game mechanics.



Ofcourse,kunais and shuriken will be used along with a few other throwing items i believe.
I am sure that we will also see some kind of herbs and traps.
Food would be a way to buff yourself for a few minutes/hours i guess.

PS:After reading that you want to be a medic ninja,i know why you suggested these things before.
But it might not be so entertaining for all the other players who are not medic ninjas(and that means,most players).

[NinjaMirage]

but the game economy must be divine by something and if not missions then what??

freedom is great and all but that also means you're free to die if you get in a area you are unprepared for.

thanks for the sandbox lesson though i was unsure of what you meant by that.

[Tameshi Hinode]

The economy can stay intact by the export of goods from one village to another AND missions.
Missions will still be a main part of the game,but this doesnt mean you HAVE to do them.

Yes,you are free to die,but you shouldnt need a medic ninja for 1 opponent wit hthe same skill lvl as yours.
Its just not balanced if you have to fight 2vs1 against someone who is just as strong as you are,and that only because he ambushed you.
Travelling on your own,doesnt mean you are unprepared,it means youre more of a,,lone wolf''and also a lone wolf should get the chance to defend himself against 1 opponent without the help of a medic ninja.
If you expect to encounter a group of bandits(hostile players),you shouldnt go alone.
But if its just one opponent,you should have to take a medic ninja with you all the time.

[NinjaMirage]

the thing is this game is mostly about skill and a ambush is  a very deadly battle strategy

things like sensory abilities and pets ninja hounds and the like would make it much less effective

i would expect players that want to be lone wolfs as you call them to be prepared to counter ambushes with this. but your average player my not be able to so what do you do...
you find other ways of getting out of it. having a partner to back you up is one way,
the other is to always anticipate a ambush.. you can't stop players form ambushing you and it is a effective battle skill.

[Tameshi Hinode]

the thing is this game is mostly about skill.......ambush

To be honest...a ambush doesnt really require skill.
In the anime,it does,i agree.
But in multiplayer games,it will look like this,most of the time:

Player 1 hides behind a tree/wall/stone/building.
Player 2 passes by.
Player 1 jumps out,spams player 2 to death or uses a onehit attack,t-bags him and insults his mother,runs away and writes,,tROLroLodSOLOLO REKKT!11''in the global chat.
Player 2 uninstalls the game and suffers from this traumatic event.
He seeks a therapist,s help because of trust issues and a constant paranoia but unfortunately,he hasnt enough money to pay the therapist.
Player 2 begins to buy weapons for self defense,with the money that he needs to pay the rent.
Player 2 starts to drink and gets a alcohol problem.
Player 2,s wife wants a divorce and player 2 loses his job because of the stressful situation at home,and isnt allowed to see his children.
Player 2 becomes homeless and lives on the street.
Then,player 2 begins to steal,so he can buy food,he,,ambushes''other people and steals ther money.
Player 2 became player 1 now,and all that,because someone ambushed him.
And so,the wheels keep spinning.


Anyway....a ambush might give you a advantage,because you can land the first hit.
But your victim(you can hardly say,,opponent''because there is no real fight)should at least have the chance to defend himself after the attack and maybe even win,if he is good enough.

And....as a taijutsu user you could have a hard time,detecting hidden players.

[taigakun]

the thing is this game is mostly about skill.......ambush

To be honest...a ambush doesnt really require skill.
In the anime,it does,i agree.
But in multiplayer games,it will look like this,most of the time:

Player 1 hides behind a tree/wall/stone/building.
Player 2 passes by.
Player 1 jumps out,spams player 2 to death or uses a onehit attack,t-bags him and insults his mother,runs away and writes,,tROLroLodSOLOLO REKKT!11''in the global chat.
Player 2 uninstalls the game and suffers from this traumatic event.
He seeks a therapist,s help because of trust issues and a constant paranoia but unfortunately,he hasnt enough money to pay the therapist.
Player 2 begins to buy weapons for self defense,with the money that he needs to pay the rent.
Player 2 starts to drink and gets a alcohol problem.
Player 2,s wife wants a divorce and player 2 loses his job because of the stressful situation at home,and isnt allowed to see his children.
Player 2 becomes homeless and lives on the street.
Then,player 2 begins to steal,so he can buy food,he,,ambushes''other people and steals ther money.
Player 2 became player 1 now,and all that,because someone ambushed him.
And so,the wheels keep spinning.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA xD

[NinjaMirage]

LOL that was hilarious and illustrated you point well!!

may i ask out of curiosity what style of shinobi you plan to be??
genjutsu
ninjutsu
taijutsu
kenjutsu
medical

an ambush in a game like this will not be like other mmos.
yes they will hide. but unless they use a long range attack
they will have to move out of cover at some point.
as you have said this is not a fps so there are no sniper rifles
shotguns. and there are countless ways of making a first attack
ineffective.

an ambush in this game will be much harder to achieve because of
sensory ninja, ambushers would need to know the area well.
because of ninjutsu they would have to wait for an opining when your
not paying attention, and they would have to make sure you don't have
someone with you and with stealth ninjutsu this is not as easy as it sounds.
all the time looking out that they don't get ambushed themselves.

[Tameshi Hinode]

I plan to be a kenjutsu user,so i would have bad cards,detecting hidden players.

On a side note:
Sometimes,even experienced players do a mistake,like,forgetting to make a jutsu for self defense.
Should they be punished for that?
Yes.
But they should also have the chance to make up for that one little mistake i think.
After all,we are talking about losing characters you played months or years for.
Losing them because of 1 small mistake might be a way too harsh punishment.
And we dont know yet,how long jutsus like the substitution jutsu will stay active.
If they just stay active for a few seconds,you would have to make new ones all the time.

[NinjaMirage]

lets assume for a second that substitution jutsu would act like flamethrower jutsu in the current build. you wave the signs and you run around going about your business until you have a reason to activate it.

if this is the case and you don't do it when your on your own... yes
you should loose your character by now you should know better.

as a kenjutsu user you would likely try and learn this jutsu early

and the longer you know a jutsu the easier it should be for you to use! so even if it is a tic ability that drains chakra slowly while active( which i don't see why that would be the case since the jutsu is simply a ninjutsu trap and once set up that's it)  it would take less chakra per tic at each chakra controle level. personally if i was captain of a squad you would be a good candidate for the front position in my opinion. close and mid range combat type with ambush survivability.
Edit:
that is  to say that the jutsu itself will not take less chakra just relative to your skills as you grow will make it less taxing.

just be cause you branch in to taijutsu and focus on kenjutsu dose not mean you cant learn ninjutsu. especially week stuff like substitution.
it will likely take a lot of your chakra at first but as i said they get easier each time you use them.