Genjutsu

[granit]

Hey guys I'll be talking about genjutsu.

Soo, in the FAQ when they come to the question how do genjutsus work, they answer with "To be announced".
I think there shouldn't be a way all genjutsus work. It should vary from jutsu to jutsu.

E.g. tsukyomi should not hurt the one you are attacking , but rather make it look like you are doing so, for him.

And about how to catch somebody in a genjutsu , I think he/she should be inside of certain area and look directly at you.

There should also be other genjutsus that for example trap you in a genjutsu with sound , which have a greater are of effect but are weaker , just to balance it.
Another way would be to touch somebody to catch him in a genjutsu.

So guys let me hear what you have to say!!

[Konohuro]

I think most of the things that you put up there were already planed to be this way.

look directly at you.

I must disagree with this one. The eye contact is necessary only for Sharingan users as their genjutsu tool is the eye. But all the other non-Kekkei Genkai genjutsus don't require eye contact. (e.g. Kabuto cast a genjutsu over the audience that was following the Chuunin Exams 3rd stage resulting in everyone falling asleep)

[granit]

I think most of the things that you put up there were already planed to be this way.

look directly at you.

I must disagree with this one. The eye contact is necessary only for Sharingan users as their genjutsu tool is the eye. But all the other non-Kekkei Genkai genjutsus don't require eye contact. (e.g. Kabuto cast a genjutsu over the audience that was following the Chuunin Exams 3rd stage resulting in everyone falling asleep)

When I said look directly at you I was talking about Tsukyomi and other sharingan genjutsus.

That aside , what about escaping from a genjutsu?
I had in mind that if the genjutsu is strong enough you cannot escape without help from someone.

And I think you should be able to get caught in another genjutsu , like itachi and sasuke did to each other to free them from kabuto's genjutsu.

[NinjaMirage]

I know this is an extreamly old tread... But I had an idea on genjutsu I wanted to throw out there and see what people think about it, and so I fount this old thread instead of making a new one.

The idea is that because genjutsu will be mostly confusing and crowd control effects, and do no damage at all... I think the targets stamina should be effected- ether to simulate the effect of them running around in the illusion there caught in- like the genjutsu kabuto and team seven were caught in in the 2 stage of the chunin exams- or to simulate the physical effects on the mind having experienced illusionary time manipulation and pain like the Tsukuyomi.

[SpeakingRain]

I would think that the player that is trapped in genjutsu can't see what everybody else is doing. Instead they see something completely different, either meant to trick them into danger or harming themselves (like Itachi did with Kurenai) or just completely fuck with their heads (like screaming eyeless baby dolls suddenly popping on screen), depending on the genjutsu.

Can you imagine a battlefield were someone suddenly flips out on chat because of genjutsu jumps scares? ^^

[taigakun]

(like screaming eyeless baby dolls suddenly popping on screen), depending on the genjutsu.

Im pretty sure i'd die in rl from this if something like this randomly pops up

[SpeakingRain]

Me too, but it'd be awesome! ^^ and effective.

[taigakun]

Me too, but it'd be awesome! ^^ and effective.

hahah lmao

[SpeakingRain]

Here are my ideas for genjutsu more fleshed out. It's mostly based on a mechanic where the victim can see thing everyone else cannot.

Genjutsu Types and examples

Behavior Alteration (can be released by PC)
   - Controls scrambled
   - Enemy vs Friend markers are switched
   - PC falls asleep
   - PC sees all players disappear except one fake enemy one. If PC tries to follow it, it will lead him into unseen danger in the"real" world  (fire, lava, off a cliff) that everyone not trapped in genjutsu will see.

Torture
- Various scenarios that drains your stamina and/or chakra (burning, Itachi's cross torture, ect.) If l

Horror
    - Locked in room with mannequins that move closer when you don't look at them
  - watch the Ring-esque video
  - forced to walked down hallway with pictures of moving eyes.
- chased by eyeless baby dolls
- Strapped down with spiders and/or rats (I guess it'd be effective to those afraid of them)
Death in the horror genjutsu world will simply reset the scenario.


All genjutsu can be counteracted by a being touched by another player.

[Mars]

I would think that the player that is trapped in genjutsu can't see what everybody else is doing. Instead they see something completely different, either meant to trick them into danger or harming themselves (like Itachi did with Kurenai) or just completely fuck with their heads (like screaming eyeless baby dolls suddenly popping on screen), depending on the genjutsu.

Can you imagine a battlefield were someone suddenly flips out on chat because of genjutsu jumps scares? ^^

Actually sounds pretty cool, make a really scary scenario with eerie music and jumpscares and stuff.

[Dragon6624]

"A fight in itself is only a distraction from the main goal, and best countered with a larger distraction."

Obvious genjutsu is all fine and good -- and most of it is fit for purpose, what with the control-swapping and Blue-Screen-Of-Death I've heard passed around the table; but I personally think that it's the subtle unknowing that makes for the most effective genjutsu -- after all, Genjutsu is quite literally "Illusion Technique", or the falsifying of others realities. The more obvious screaming-eyeless-baby-jumpscare might catch a few off-guard tweens, but any seasoned gamer will have more of a *jerk-dodge* reaction and will recover far too quickly for the genjutsu user to then nail them down with kunai, et cetera.

Genjutsu is cautionary, elusive, and deceptive -- as Count Dooku said to Grievous while training him: http://youtu.be/PKgv6xyY5MM?t=45

Therefore, the majority of genjutsu should *appear* to be just another part of the player's reality, when in actuality it is merely an illusion manipulating the player's own perception. And in terms of being OP, a more subtle genjutsu need not entirely wrench away the control of other players --thereby rendering it "Bullshit" in most players' opinions-- but could instead be simple deceptions that lead to their end result (or those they aid in accomplishing) being entirely on the hands of the victim for disregarding. 'Players' that run around, avoiding all contact whenever possible, only to be revealed as intangible objects; A 'heavy downpour' that was never there to begin with, but --from the victim's perspective-- seemed to slowly begin, then grow in strength until it was incredibly difficult to see through; Or perhaps a bit more obviously, the distant sound of combat that is in fact, only an alluring use of the victim's auditory senses. In essence, the best Genjutsu should play upon one victim's innate naivety, but be capable of being halted by another's caution.

Less screams, more dreams -- though that's just my own personal opinion, I'm still interested in seeing what everyone else says on the subject; Simple and subtle, or something more grand?

[SpeakingRain]

I've been basing my suggestions for genjutsu off of what we saw from the anime/manga. I've suggested some that were subtler such as the sleep (that took out almost everyone in the chunnin exam), misdirection (Kurenai and Diedara attacking themselves) and dead teammate (Sakura during the bell training).

But on the other side of the spectrum, we have genjutsu that teleport you to an eerie world were you can be tortured for three days in a span of a second or turned into paper and burned.

Between them is Emphermal (Naruto having his friends faces grow out of his body), and Shikamaru melting.

Not all genjutsu is subtle. Half of it is royally fucking with another's head.

[Dragon6624]

I've been basing my suggestions for genjutsu off of what we saw from the anime/manga. I've suggested some that were subtler such as the sleep (that took out almost everyone in the chunnin exam), misdirection (Kurenai and Diedara attacking themselves) and dead teammate (Sakura during the bell training).

But on the other side of the spectrum, we have genjutsu that teleport you to an eerie world were you can be tortured for three days in a span of a second or turned into paper and burned.

Between them is Emphermal (Naruto having his friends faces grow out of his body), and Shikamaru melting.

Not all genjutsu is subtle. Half of it is royally fucking with another's head.

True, but I still contest that it's the less effective of the two; and think about it, how in the world would you be able to "royally fuck" with the heads of gamers? Other than a control swap or those various incarnations of *Screen Malfunction Example*, what's going to surprise a player 'without' them calling bullshit? Nearly all of the Sharingan-related Genjutsu are near-impossible to recreate anyway outside of *graphically* -- it'd be impossible to represent the amount of pain Kakashi, Naruto or Shikamaru went through.

Unless you added in some TRULY grueling mini-games --the Metal Gear Solid, Solid Snake electrocution scene comes to mind with its thumb-killing button-mashing-- the player simply *cannot* empathize with what the character is 'supposed' to be going through. Not to mention the repercussions from players if the Genjutsu strips away *too much* control, which is one of the main reasons why I'm more for subtlety and less straight-up-trolling. The subtle approach might give wary players a chance to back out of --or at least *recognize* and attempt to form countermeasures to-- these mind-fucks; the more blatant approach could end up down-right infuriating (rather than panicking) players, because there's a completely removed sense of control.

We could go back and forth all day with the nitty-gritty of what is and isn't OP compared to a fiction that throws out most of its rules following the second half of it's second chapter -- but I'm ultimately more of a fan for "Ahhhh -- ah-hah...damn, he got me." rather than "MOTHERFUCKING BITCH!!!"

Of course you'll always have *someone* getting pissed, but I'm speaking on the behalf of your normal players, not the dweebs, the imbeciles or the asshats. Normal players *generally* have a sense of respect for one another, and this is proliferated by a general feeling of *balance* within the game. Come to think of it as a whole, actually -- is this topic even worth talking about when it has *such* an absurdly large potential for imbalance, of either OP or Nerfdom?

Maybe it is...though I'm unsure at this point, given the sheer magnitude of it. Anyway, further thoughts?

P.S.
It occurs to me I have a problem letting go of arguments...hmm.

[SpeakingRain]

Uh... I said subtle was good. I agreed with having subtle genjutsu. Your suggestions are good.

   But that I also think more obvious genjutsu horror-game esque would be fun as well. Not Maze-game type jump scares; I agree, those are stupid. But perhaps borrowing elements from Silent Hill or Amnesia?

   Even if the player recognizes the genjutsu, they still can't get out of it by themselves and have to rely on others to touch them to break the jutsu. And even then, the genjutsu user themselves would chose which type of genjutsu they like inflicting on others the most.

[Shocks]

You could also create videos that will play on the victims screen when hit with particular genjutsu, something they are forced to watch each time. Like itachi's tsukuyomi, being chained or pinned up and being killed over and over, after the video your chakra and stamina are drained?

I like the idea of the player being teleported somewhere and having to escape a maze or a situation where they are in danger, or being in the same place but not being able to touch anybody they can see, some genjutsu i think could also be defensive, so the victim no longer see's you the caster, but see's a duplicate but with an A.I. thats not physical, but you are able to attack as if almost invisible but only to that player or people hit by the genjutsu, i think a creative way out of this or to combat this would be to adjust distance/sound so people can tell exactly where sound is coming from, so the AI wouldn't make any sound when it runs because its not physical, but you still would giving them the chance to find you by sound, creative aspect to try out